Empire of the Iguanadons

So I'm checking Fox News this morning and run across a story that almost seems too weird - except that information scattered around the web confirms it's true. Apparently the Lakota Indian tribe is withdrawing itself from treaties signed 150 years ago with the United States government. This might just seem like a crackpot move by a bunch of crazy peyote smokers if it weren't for the fact that they sent a formal delegation to the State Department today to deliver their message. They've also sent delegations to several foreign embassies here in the US to inform them of their intentions as well. There appears to be solid legal footing for making a "declaration of continuing independence" as they call it. Article 6 of the US Constitution, International Law, and UN resolutions all give support to their position. So this has to be taken seriously and be dealt with in some way.

So the question becomes, how do we deal with this? Should the declaration simply be honored, the treaty voided, and the land returned to the Lakota tribe? Should the Federal government fight this through the courts and international forums? Or should we send the military in to crush an open rebellion? At this stage I don't honestly know what the best option would be. The land has been part of the US for 150 years. All of the original parties involved in signing it are dead now. Lakota country includes parts of the states of Nebraska, South Dakota, North Dakota, Montana and Wyoming.

If we allow the Lakota to exist as an independent nation, people living in the territory they claim will suddenly find themselves under the jurisdiction of a new government they didn't intend to be part of. Regardless of the claims the Lakota are making, most people living in the territory covered by this are just trying to have a life. Although the Lakota are offering a pretty sweet deal - renounce US citizenship, join the new country, and never pay taxes again. It sounds tempting, but it's also not very practical in the modern age.

Sending in the military to quell a rebellion would almost certainly end in disaster. Though we would win the fight easily, it would leave a very sour taste in everyone's mouth at having to deploy US troops on our own soil. There's also a chance that in doing so, we could trigger sympathy from militia groups in the area, and perhaps from other Indian tribes who harbor similar feelings but were not prepared to act. It could even result in a civil war. If that were to happen it would leave us vulnerable to outside attack. It would be the proverbial beginning of the end of America.

That would seem to leave use of the courts and of the UN and other bodies to resolve this as the most logical approach. The problem here though is that if the Lakota void the treaty, there is no other law binding them as part of the US. They would be technically independent already. They've been in a quasi-independent state as it is since the 1850s. As I'm sure we all know, leaving such an important issue in the hands of either our court system or the UN would be a disaster of epic proportions. It likely would end with nothing being solved.

The main reason the Lakota seem to want to do this reads a lot like a genuine desire to be free - until you get down to the details.

As listed on http://censored-news.blogspot.com/2007/12/lakota-freedom-delegation-to-withdraw.html :

* Lakota men have a life expectancy of less than 44 years, lowest of any country in the World (excluding AIDS) including Haiti.
* The Lakota infant mortality rate is 5x the U.S. Average.
* The Tuberculosis rate on Lakota reservations is approx 800% higher than the U.S national average.
* 97% of our Lakota people live below the poverty line.
* Unemployment rates on our reservations are approximately 85%.
* Teenage suicide rate is 150% higher than the U.S national average for this group.
* Our Lakota language is an Endangered Language, on the verge of extinction.

It's a laundry list of victicrat reasons for being lazy, unproductive, welfare leeches. These are all things the Lakota could fix entirely on their own, without help from the government, taxpayers, or anyone else. All they need to do is stop being lazy piles of crap. The social and economic conditions they've imposed on themselves are not going to go away just because they're not part of the United States anymore. Who are they going to turn to if they withdraw from the treaty? Surely we as Americans would no longer be obliged to do anything about it.

Still, this all stands to be a rather interesting footnote in the history of America. Not since the secession of the southern states in the Civil War has anything like this happened here. We're here to witness it firsthand. The whole thing is rather fascinating on many levels. It's a real shame that the press has all but ignored this other than Fox News. There's a huge opportunity for us to learn about ourselves here.

Visit the Lakota Freedom Delegation for more information. They lay out a compelling case in the PDF documents in the portfolio section. Be aware that the site is prone to traffic flooding, so if it's not available, try again later.
.........................
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

Interesting find, Samson. It sounds like these folk are already just being a drain on the nation as it is, maybe we should let them cut loose and then go reclaim their lands in a few years when they're wiped themselves out entirely..

Seriously, it does make for a rather interesting bit of a dilemna for our government. From what you say, these folk actually have the law on their side in this one so the courts probably could only support their demands and military action would probably be ill advised at this point which doesn't leave a whole lot of options. Do these folk, in their "laundry list", explain what it is they expect to gain through this secession?

I think the military would be an excellent option, we could get the retard agencies (read news agencies) to paint them as treasonous and rebels, and then squash them with a well thought out SEAL Team surgical strike. OR Option 2 for military action would be to march the full force of the US Armed Services in and kick their asses back to the stone age.

It's obvious that's where they want to be anyway, back before technology, before cars, they want to be back where money meant nothing it was all about the size of your tepee and how many animal pelts it was made of. Because as Samson said,

Truth hurts.

Sounds like some racism on the part of all of you. Have any of you ever seriously studied the things that our government has done to strip Native American communities of their resources over the years? Clearly not. If you do you would at least have some understandings of the complexities of the story.

And this comes to us from someone unwilling to reveal even a name by which to know whom we're responding. In any event, accusing all three of us of racism while clearly making ridiculous assumptions about our ignorance levels does absolutely nothing to positively support your 'argument' which you've presented very succinctly if rather poorly.

There's also the fact that there has been absolutely no major media coverage of this story since it broke other than the initial posting through Fox News. It makes one wonder just what the hell is really going on and why we've not heard anything more than random musings on the situation such as mine and other bloggers.

And is it racist to call lazy people lazy when the statistics their own spokespeople are putting out support the conclusion that they're lazy? So tell me, Mr. Anonymous Coward, just how are such utterly lazy people supposed to support a new nation on their own? They won't have our government to sponge off of any more if they do that.

[BTW, thanks for the bug report - even though you have no idea you filed one and had no intention of helping the development of Sandbox]

Yeah, if a homepage isn't specified it's no big deal, but if a name isn't provided it should really probably either not accept the submission at all or else at least substitute the word Anonymous in there. (I'd favor toward not accepting the submisison, myself. *shrug*)

Hi, I'm Chris. I am not lazy, I am not anonymous, and I am not native to this continent (although I was born here). I also like to think that I am not racist, but everyone is racist to some extent--is natural to be fearful of that which one does not understand. It is entirely clear to me that the U.S government has a deplorable record in terms of blatant disregard for native american land treaties. I'm no expert, so I refer anyone to Howard Zinn's People's History of the United States. The main reason I am writing (came across these discussions researching the topic of indigenous sovereignty, which is of great interest to me) is because I, too, was disappointed to read the broad assertion that Indians are lazy leeches on all the other hardworking American taxpayers. Surely anyone wishing to make a compelling and defensible argument can do so without name calling. I wonder how many lazy drunk indians do you personally have relationships with. I can claim none--although I am acquainted with several Cherokee who are inspiring spiritual and business leaders.

I'd also recommend reading Daniel Quinn's Ishmael to better understand the dynamic of territorial/cultural imperialism and its many casualties. Simply put--the white man stole this country from the people who actually loved and respected it as a sacred homeland--integral to their very identity. I have bought into the system for now--own a house, etc...but the fact is that it was paid for by Cherokee blood--the people who have true rights here. the Lakota have been lied to and cheated long enough--and yes, if anyone solves their problems--it will be from within. They have a tradition and a heritage that is unimaginably rich and comprehensive compared to anything that Europe has exported here (my opinion). The integration with christianity and big government corporatocracy is incompatible--this seems to be the Lakota final analysis. Besides, our law says that they have every right to be independent. Our track record does indicate that their rebellion will be squashed--but that is only because sonquerors have so little patience with those they overrun.

We shall see what unfolds.


Happy new year and best wishes for peace on earth.

Ctheal@southface.org

www.southface.org

I avoid having relationships with such persons, personally, but I have seen and met far more "lazy drunk indians" than I'd care to even admit I am aware exist in this country while I was living in New Mexico. I sincerely do not believe that anyone here was saying that all Native Americans are thus, just that the ones this article was talking about are self-proclaiming that they are in fact part of the problem rather than part of the solution and Samson was pointing out that he felt it was ironic that they wanted independence when they can't even seem to manage themselves with our government's help.

No offense, but I think you've bought a little too heavily into the Native American propaganda. Should those living in the Caspian region also feel their homes really belong to the Romanian Gypsies who were there first but were subjugated by the Ottoman empire? What do you owe to your Afro-American neighbors who feel that your ancestors forced their ancestors into slavery and brought those same ancestors to this country as captured prisoners, never mind the fact that your ancestors may not have been living in this country until long after slavery was abolished... just to give you another example of the same sort of propaganda. Ultimately, it may suck for those who are determined to be indians rather than Americans, but it really is just how things work in the world when peoples are 'conquered', especially centuries later.

Happy New Year to you too, but I'm afraid true peace on earth is likely to be nothing more possible than a wish these days.

If you were born here, you're a native to this continent. As am I. As I suspect Conner is too. You may have ancestry in American Indian tribes, but that really has no bearing on your native status.



I understand it perfectly well. A tribe of American Indians decides to declare their independence. They lack the means to support themselves, as supported by the unemployment statistics. THAT is what scares me about this. Not that they're Indians. You have an entire group of people who have clearly demonstrated that they have no initiative trying to convince the world that they can function on their own when they're relying almost entirely on Federal assistance to survive. So they have no incentive to want to work. Who could blame them? If the government gave me a check every month for being a lazy bastard I'd take it too.



None. And I'd not be seeking to have one with a lazy drunk Indian. Or a lazy drunk anyone else for that matter.



I have no problem with that. A lot of people in this country are incompatible with Christianity and the corporate world we all live in. God knows I've had my share of run-ins with the corporate clods who run this place. But I don't think it would serve much of a purpose if I gathered my friend together and marched on the State Dept. when we have nothing to sustain a nation with other than peace, love, and hope. Peace, love, and hope don't pay the rent. I also don't think it's appropriate to blame people today for something our forefathers did 150 years ago when none of us were alive yet.

I'm also still waiting for an answer to why this hasn't received any press whatsoever beyond a single posting to the Fox News website. A suspicious mind might think the whole thing was made up and Fox got baited into running the story.

So is this a page for ignorant bigots or what?
just kidding its good to see that a few people have tried to enlighten the racists that started the idiocy on this subject.
AS far as the information the head klan member put up i'd like to point out that its also missing the FACT that the united states government failed to honor the treaties. The failure to honor the treaties arose from the immoral behavior exhibited by the early migration of settlers who were blinded by their racist ideologies and felt they did not have to obey the laws that were established. In a sense these groups were the alqaeda of their day. kind of like the klan and mormons. back to the point-> as a result the treaties have been null and void for quite some time. Considering the fact that much of the land "america" claims to "own" was obtained through treaties that the u.s. never truly honored, it's a safe bet to say if the lakota are succesful in this endeavor there will be a legal precedent for the return of all land to the native americans. And considering the facts that the u.s. congress is based upon a native american form of government i wouldnt be so quick to claim that these people would be unable to run their own country. Especially when you look at the fact that the condition native americans have been suffering from has been a result of conditions imposed upon them by groups who are akin to domestic terrorists. Groups such as christians, mormons, ranchers, and other examples of ignorant whites who are blinded by their racist delusional fantasies.
Hopefully in the next few years we will see the lands that legally belong to native americans returned along with the imposition of penalties against the u.s. and any group that they are able to demonstrate is responsible for the damage their "property" has sustained from the irresponsible slave work force of the corporations and the british crown. Damage that can be seen stretching from one end of the country to the other as well as being present in other countries all over the world.
The amount of recompensation the world court, if they weren't so corrupt, could order those responsible for the pollution that corporations have left behind in the wake of their uranium testing and other mining projects, not to mention the amount they could gain if they were to take the missionaries to court regarding the cases of child sexual abuse committed by "christians" to native children. And let's not forget the recorded cases which "america" seems to be trying to omit from history texts of "crimes against humanity" perpetrated by "false christians" who were in actuality white supremacists who were closer to followers of demons than christ.
LoL yea they have a legitimate case. And the main reason why the corporate news media is failing to keep tabs on the movement is because those same corps are owned by the 4th reich nazi's who probably are going to try to release another manmade virus, like HIV, and or perhaps they'll try to fill those concentration camps that were built a few years ago on U.S. soil. Surprisingly though they are located in Montana. So odds are the nazi "christian" "americans" will make the wrong choice and try to lock up the children of the Earth who have always been the true aryan race.
I find it quite amusing that the individuals who have made these racist remarks that indians are lazy are forgetting that white america has steadily been growing lazier and lazier, as they gain more and more weight stuffing themselves with sausage and beer as they zone out watching the corporate news and the corporate sponored sports, hiding from the uncomfortable weather outside the walls of their p.o.s. mobile homes. Where they sit on their fat asses and pump up their egos as they talk shit and compare other races to monkeys.
Seriously folks get over your feelings of inadequacy and accept the fact that the natives can run the show better than you or your Reptillian slave masters ever could.
And just to bring a lil light to the darkness that clouds your minds. The reason why i say the natives are the true aryans is simple. Look up the true word and its true origin not the european lies created to soothe the broken psyche of those whites who were so butt hurt that they needed to fabricate a fantasy to get their lazy asses motivated to kill off those other cultures whose existence proved the bible was another lie.
the word arya, aryan does not apply to the germanic peoples as many were mislead into believing.
The term "aryan" was corrupted by the europeans since they wanted to believe whites were the only noble people in the world. However an arya or aryan is more than one who hails from a noble family, it is also a term to describe one of gentle behavior and demeanor, good natured and of righteous conduct. And in the vedas - "Arya sarva smascaiva sadaiva priy adarsanah" or translated for those who can only barely understand english- "Arya, who worked for the equality of all and was dear to everyone."
Conduct which was displayed by the native americans when the europeans first arrived on this continent. At least until the whites began destroying the teachings that had guided them.
But shit happens. And the great thing about life is karma has a funny way of sneaking up on the arrogant and knocking them on their rear ends.
And for those of you who support the idea of rounding the natives up and placing them in concentration camps or whatever other nazi like remedy you can conceive, just remember when they're finished with us your slave master will turn on you like they did to their servants in the towers.

Wow, that's just amazing. This Parker joker comes along and not only spouts an absolutely astounding pile of pure drivel that clearly demonstrates true ignorance, but they even post it four times like they're not even bright enough to figure out how to submit a post to someone's blog. (We won't even get into the audacity of opening your comment post to someone's personal blog by insulting that person by referring to them as a 'Klan leader'.)

There. That should take care of that problem. Since the duplicates were clearly spam, I've treated them as such and reported them to Akismet since each message was posted from a different IP address.

Put simply, Parker is a raving lunatic who essentially proves several of my points from other topics about who the true racists are in America. I never once said anything racist about the Lakota. I merely pointed out that their laundry list of reasons for voiding the treaties were nothing more than victicrat welfare state "I'm a victim" mentality points. It's perfectly ok for them to complain. The US government treated these people badly and has indeed shit on the treaties we held ( or still hold? ) with them. People need to stop and think, and learn to read. I also never said one word about anyone's religious beliefs on either side. Funny how the opposing argument has now invoked it twice in an attempt to cast Christians as evil doers.

A nation of people in which 98% of the population is on unemployment is unsustainable. Those people would find themselves ceasing to collect that unemployment because they're no longer part of the USA. Our government would no longer be liable for paying their welfare checks every month, as they have renounced their US citizenship and willingly seceded from the union.

So I want someone to tell me. What are these people planning to do to sustain themselves? What are they planning to do with US citizens who suddenly find themselves no longer living in the US? These people had no hand in creating the situation that currently exists. Taking property they've legally acquired would be just as wrong as when the US took the land from the Lakota. Suppose farm and homeowners refuse to give up? Suppose they arm themselves and resist? Then what happens? Will the Lakota come in and kill them all? Suppose these US citizens caught up in all this call for help from the US military to defend their homes? Is an open rebellion what you really want? Is being slaughtered the answer?

And everyone continues to ignore the most relevant point. Why isn't the media covering this? Have the actual Lakota tribal councils REALLY declared their independence as a nation? Did the Great Sioux Nation sign off on it and give their approval? Has the State Department acknowledged this in any way? Or was this all an elaborate and legally meaningless publicity stunt by Russel Means and his followers like many other blogs have reported?

Wow. I can honestly say that I've now been called every name under the sun. I've never been called a bigot before. Especially since I didn't really say anything racist.. I believe all I said was that this was bullshit, and that they should just send in the military and be all like, "You can't HANDLE the independence!" >.>

But yeah, this was an interesting thing to catch up on. XD

http://www.rapidcityjournal.com/articles/2008/01/04/news/top/doc477ec9768e680993877180.txt

Apparently the local Rapid City newspaper has covered the story. If you read that, pay close attention. You'll notice that the declaration of independence, and the voiding of the treaties, lacks the support of the recognized tribal government. Russell Means is nothing more than an activist with an agenda, and pulled a huge publicity stunt.

So now we have our explanation for why the major TV and print media hasn't gone anywhere with this. There's nowhere to go. The whole thing is bullshit

Ah, I see.. imagine that, we're all racists and bigots and ... because we felt this was suspicious and didn't seem right and yet, lo and behold, we were dead on... *sigh*

Oh well, at least it generated some extra publicity for your blog, Samson.

"It's a laundry list of victicrat reasons for being lazy, unproductive, welfare leeches. These are all things the Lakota could fix entirely on their own, without help from the government, taxpayers, or anyone else. All they need to do is stop being lazy piles of crap."
words you would expect at the opening of a klan meeting. Hence my reason for stating the truth about the racism and bigotry that dominates this site.When i saw how quick you were to claim to have said nothing racist about the lakota I realized my error. I made the mistake of believing you were capable of growing up and moving beyond the ignorant fantasy that is your view of the world outside of your mothers basement. That by sharing some of the info the parasites that controlled your tamahu ancestors and now blind you from seeing, that there was a chance you'd see how much your pride, that demons reign over your mind, keeps you in the dark.

That's okay after few years pass every one of you racist puppets will learn that your fantasy will not stay the hand of retribution
you cant hide from the shadows. ill make sure to post the footage of each one of you fat slobs crying and begging for mercy...

No. Words you would expect to see at an anti-welfare meeting. Or a conservative political action meeting. Or a republican caucus. Or a sensible tax use foundation meeting. Or a Libertarian Party meeting. And in some Southern states, perhaps even a democratic caucus too.

The words you, Parker, are using are what one would expect to find at the opening statements of a klan meeting. Or of a radical militia group meeting. Or a separatist meeting. Or a secessionist meeting. Or even at a confederate congressional session.

I'm sorry you can't see that I am sick and tired of paying for people whose sole function in life is to leech off of welfare, grants, AFDC, and their reservation paychecks. I don't give a crap if such people are Lakota, Mexican, Canadian, European, Chinese, Altairian, Romulan, Vulcan, Klingon, black, white, red, brown, pink with blue stripes, or green with red dots. People who behave as though they are entitled to government giveaways have no sense of personal responsibility. No pride in themselves. No work ethic. They believe themselves to be victims of oppression, suppression, racism, sexism, ageism, and whatever other ism of the week is popular.

All of this can be fixed by whoever places themselves in a group like that. Hard work, education, and personal responsibility. That's all it takes. Anyone who applies even a small amount of that philosophy will get somewhere in life. It won't necessarily make you rich and powerful, but you will be self sustaining. And I guarantee you that others will look upon you in a more favorable light than if you play the victicrat card all day long.

http://en.wikinews.org/wiki/"No_treaty_withdrawal",_says_Lakota_elder

More confirmation that this whole thing was complete crap. Not that I trust Wikinews as a valid news source, but still.

Well....

I have to say that if ALL the tribal elders, leaders, etc. want to withdraw from the treaties, and the people elect these leaders, then there's nothing we can do to stop them. The Wikipedia entry does say:

The claimed boundaries of Lakotah are the Yellowstone River to the north, the North Platte River to the south, the Missouri River to the east and an irregular line marking the west. These borders coincide with those set by the 1851 Treaty of Fort Laramie:

The territory of the Sioux or Dahcotah Nation, commencing the mouth of the White Earth River, on the Missouri River; thence in a southwesterly direction to the forks of the Platte River; thence up the north fork of the Platte River to a point known as the Red Buts, or where the road leaves the river; thence along the range of mountains known as the Black Hills, to the head-waters of Heart River; thence down Heart River to its mouth; and thence down the Missouri River to the place of beginning."

However, if they withdraw from THIS particular treaty, those words mean nothing. So they'd have to keep this treaty to keep the land. Right?

Zenn

If all of the tribal elders were behind the decision to withdraw from the treaties that would be an entirely different matter. But every indication coming from them shows that none of them are behind the move. Russell Means is a citizen activist and nothing more. He has no authority to make these kinds of decisions for his people.

Since the treaty is the only thing bonding them to the union, if it gets dissolved then the Lakota would get back the territory they originally held before the 1851 treaty.

I don't think you should be so quick to say these people are just being lazy and if they felt like it they could fix their own problems. If you have nothing to start out with, progress is slow and painful. On the Pine Ridge reservation many of the houses don't have electricity, running water, or telephone. There are a few businesses, and some people are employed in tribal government and infrastructure, but other than that, there aren't places to work, and there aren't ways to get there. Their traditional ways of supporting themselves have collapsed; the buffalo herds they depended on for food and shelter have been decimated and our government banned their language and culture from them for a period of years, which injured their collective knowledge, inner pride, all sorts of things.
I don't want to make up excuses for a group I'm not even part of, but I just wanted to post up some of the reasons they might be falling into economic traps like welfare. I personally have had a hard time just getting through school and making some money on my own, and I started out with all sorts of benefits. I CANNOT IMAGINE living with no electricity, no water, no toilet, no car, no way or resource to procure my own food, no job that isn't two hour's drive, no money for gas to get there in the first place... perhaps with children thrown into the mix... there are a lot of lazy welfare bums out there, but I'm not sure this group deserves that harsh of a judgment. And I'm not just spouting off opinions here, all of the things I have said are easily verifiable by reputable sources, I just didn't feel like being academic and quoting everything, but feel free to go look up the statistics and the history.

To White
It is true this land do not belong to you.
You americans made genocide against these people. You killed native women and children like Faschist German killed Jewish children and women during WW Two.
Your hatress toward these Native can be found everywhere in your movie, books and even your history and photos.
You hate Natives
You hate Human beings
You hate FREEDOM OF NATIVES
Still today your children hate Native People!!!!!! And you too!!!!
It is shame for you and your children to abuse them.

YOU ARE NOT WHITE BROTHER OF THE NATIVES.
You are IMIIGRANTS and ILLEGAL IMMIGRANT in the continent.
No one say to come here!!!!!


Every nation has a right to have own independent state from any nation.
JUST GIVE THEM BACK THEIR COUNTRY AND LET THEM DECIDE THEIR DESTINY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

We have just found that how much you hate native people.

I have a question " isn't it shame for you to celebrate "Thanksgiving Day?"


If I were American, I would be shy

Why shouldn't I call laziness when I see it? These people are 98% unemployed and leeching off the federal government with their Indian grant money. It's the greatest scam that was ever perpetrated on the American people. Maybe that's what I should be doing. Advocating that because I have Indian blood in my family tree that I deserve to go sit on some reservation somewhere, pick my ass all day, and collect a ton of money at taxpayer expense. Yeah. That just sounds so wonderfully cool.

If their buffalo herds have thinned to the point of uselessness, they should come up with something else to do. Maybe... I don't know... they could train to be electricians, telecom techs, plumbers... because apparently according to you there's plenty of demand for services like that since nobody there seems to have these things. Perhaps some of the more enterprising folks could invest their vast government fortunes into opening hardware and supply stores to cater to the demands of the sudden boom in electricians, telecom techs, and plumbers. Instead it seems these guys are more interested in being welfare leeches - by choice.

I don't know, but from what I've seen, these reservations don't seem to have any trouble at all raising the millions of dollars it takes to establish huge new casino facilities in no time once the local government gives them the go ahead.. or do the governments grant them the funding for those too? (I've been to several indian owned/operated casinos on reservations in multiple states and I've yet to see one without electricity, plumbing, or telephone service either... I've also visited indian tourist shops on multiple reservations and, amazingly enough, they each have had the same as well...)

It's also true the land doesn't belong to the Lakota either. They kicked off the true natives about 100 years before Europeans of the day came along.



No. You've found out how much I dislike lazy people of any race. Being a native has nothing to do with it. If the reservation were filled with thousands of lazy white people sponging off my tax dollars I'd be just as pissed about it.

Would the two of you care to try a more reasoned argument now?

Utterly amazing, Samson. How such an obscure article can still be garnering attention after all this time, even despite the fact that over a month ago you also posted that this whole thing was bogus...

Hello,

Wow, where can i start. Do you even hear yourselves. First of all in part i agree that our people can do something to change their situation. And im not sure if i agree with the whole 'give us back our land' its been too long and the point is moot. There are too many people who have grown up there that shouldn't be expected to change their lives.

However, drunken welfare leeches is not even the whole truth. Are there a lot of unemployed alcoholic sioux on the reservations? yes, but the system and dealings with us were designed to keep us caged and down. America may have been built on the back of slaves, but my people were treated like roaches something to be destroyed or gathered up like animals. we don't have that many good schools on the reservations to educate and improve ourselves. Plus, have you been out west? it is hard to make industries that can generate a lot of money for a lot of reasons and especially now with the gas prices it is nearly impossible. No jobs, poor education, and a culture that is fairly collectivistic and you get people who are stuck.

Now to be completely fair, change can happen and i don't think becoming and independent nation is it. Dwelling on past hurts only breeds more bad feelings. We need to move forward whatever we do. My father and the rest of his family left and have made good lives for themselves, but that may not be possible for everyone.

Plus, the whole casio thing, they don't offer that many jobs and most of the money is pocketed by either white or native owners, most of the people never benefit from it.

The point is how dare you judge when you don't understand.

I think you might just be surprised at how much of the situation outsiders understand. For many of us have seen behavior and attitudes just like yours right here in our own cities, and we're constantly chastised for "daring to judge what we don't understand". It's the classic "don't judge me" defense. Well, I'm sorry, but life is full of judgments and/or the lack there of. The Lakotah can't come along now and claim their problems are due to high oil prices or a bad economy. They had problems long before that happened. Their problem stems from a common thing with humans, especially Americans today. A lack of personal responsibility. The collectivism isn't helping.

i don't care that you don't think its a good idea, and if you listen i agree to part of what you are saying. Also, i agree that THEY have a responsibility to pull themselves up by the boot straps so to speak. What i don't agree with is the hateful comments. I don't care who the race is it isn't right. It would be wrong from me to say that whites are conniving, lying, mudering people. (Just to be clear i do NOT believe that) It was the comments you made about our race i don't agree with, not that they don't have a responsibility to fix the mess they are in.

Samson, you've created a thread that never dies! *L*

Rhiannon, you imply that what Samson and I (along with a few others) have said (just Samson?) is offensive. Yet you ask if we've "been out west" as if you haven't read any of the previous posts to which you're replying and then tell Samson "and if you listen" as if he's not reading what you've written.. I notice that your name doesn't have a link behind it like most of us (who aren't just trolling) do and I wonder if that should be a warning flag.

To anyone else who comes along wanting to add their two cents, try to take the time to actually read the previous comments first, eh? At the very least, the ones from January in which it was pointed out (with links), repeatedly, that the original article which this thread was based upon was a news media hoax.

Conner,

I don't know what trolling is so, i don't know if i am doing that. And i don't have a link because I don't have web page why is that bad? Anyway, i DID read most of the posts first. But, my point was that it is a more complicated issue then just that native americans are lazy drunks.

And if he did read all of my post he would have realized that i wasn't trying to say they (the native people)don't have responsibility to fix the situation, just that hateful remarks are not right no matter what.

If for some reason these two points didn't come across then i am sorry i wasn't clearer. I was trying to make my point with examples, but i guess I should have just come out and said it.

It's not hateful to point out a group of people who are lazy, copping an attitude about it, and complaining to no end about their situation and heaping blame upon everyone but themselves for it. It's simply stating fact. It's not politically correct of course, but around here political correctness has no place. I state things as I see them, whether people like that or not. Such is the internet, and such is this blog

If the Lakotah want their situation to improve they need to take responsibility for why they've allowed themselves to wallow in their misery for 150 years. As you said, what's done is done, the past is the past. Today is today. Live for today, don't dwell on what a bunch of savages on both sides did to each other long before any of us were ever born. If they don't like being called welfare leeches, then they need to get off their asses and find work and get off of welfare. It's not a slight against them racially, it's a slight against the ones who are being lazy bums. The sad fact is, that happens to be a sizable number of them.

I heap just as much contempt on other groups of lazy people who think the government owes them a living. I may not have posted about it a whole lot, but believe me, it's definitely there.

Rhiannon,

I don't mean to imply that you were trolling (refer to http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=trolling for what that term means, the first four definitions listed apply pretty fairly), just that the previous posters who all were shared that lack of a website to link to their name. This isn't a bad thing in and of itself, just rather uncommon these days what with nearly everyone having their own blog or site somewhere (if not multiples of them). The result is that when I see a new poster here, especially ones who only show up a single given day (you've already impressed me by returning which is a BIG point in your favor in my books), and they have no link in their name, it's a fairly reliable indicator that they're a troll and little else.

The reason I questioned whether or not you'd read all the posts is because you asked if we'd ever been out west and Samson lives in California (can't get much further west in this country) and I lived for several years in New Mexico and have traveled extensively throughout the U.S., it was also stated that I'd been to various casinos and tourist shops on various reservations, which rather implies that I've been 'out west'.

As for his having read your post entirely, I read it and, frankly, despite you having specifically stated that you weren't in 100% disagreement, my first gut reaction was very similar to his. Though I suppose he does tend to fire from the hip a little more strongly than I do. :D

As far as what you were saying, I'm just not sure that I agree that the remarks stated here by Samson, myself, Zenn, or Kayle were actually hateful. On the other hand, some of the other posters, particularly that "Parker" person did make some rather hateful remarks, but they're the ones I was calling trolls. Then again, perhaps labeling them as trolls is somewhat hateful, albeit accurate.

Examples are good, but sometimes clarity is worth more. *shrug*

And now, on to Samson's post...


My very favorite facet of this site.


Ouch! Hey, Samson, remember, it's your blog, don't hold back, just tell us how you really feel about it... :D

Its is ignorant to label an entire group of people as "lazy" or anything else. That is like saying ALL white American men are fat beer guzzling truck driving wife beaters and all white American women are silicone pumping anorexic bar whores.

People like you are one of the very reasons that native people wish to separate themselves from this country.

And talk about Laziness-not even taking the time to check the spelling of the name of a group of people that you are talking about-while already sitting infront of your computer...THAT is lazy.
Its spelled Lakhota or Lakota, not Lakotah.
Do your research before you open you make ignorant statements. Alot of native people are hard working, college students, activists, we live and breathe and eat and work in the same places you do and you choose not to see us for who we are, just lump us in with other cultures that have similar genetic features. You choose to take what you see from ONE SMALL GROUP of a much larger group of people and use that as your basis for labelling the entire culture. If one were to use your words as a way to label your culture, it would very simply and quickly label you all as prejudice biggots. Get out your white hood samson, you obviously have one in the closet!

It is better to remain silent and appear stupid than to open it and remove all doubt. Thanks for your example

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Republic_of_Lakotah

Maybe you should take your own advice there pal. Wikipedia, first hit on the spelling "Lakotah" so it's entirely valid even if possibly misapplied. But thanks for your own example of ignorance and laziness. Surely you've heard of the concept of variant spelling? It's a lot like crying and complaining when someone uses "colour" instead of "color". It's also a sign you had nothing substantive to use as a counter argument and so tried to resort to grammar nazi-ism.

Now, if you'd paid the slightest amount of attention to this topic that will not die ( which btw is why I overrode the auto-close ) then you'd quickly be able to tell that I never once said *ALL* Indians are lazy welfare leeches who refuse to get work and assimilate into the society they're a part of. I specifically used that label on the ones who started this whole ridiculous media hoax to begin with. The ones bitching about how they'd lose their nice fat government grants. The ones bitching about how life owes them a living. Read the post you're responding to before you open your big mouth with ignorant wide sweeping generalizations.

It's people like you that make even discussing issues like this impossible this day in age. If you find a group of lazy welfare leeches and have the evidence to show the claim is true, it's a sign you've struck a nerve when some crazed whack job like yourself comes along and plays the "you're a racist" card as a defense. The irony here is, it's you who are the racist and not myself. And it shines clear as day with the assumption that this entire topic must be about race.

FYI - This topic has lived a good life and served the Empire well. It is however time to retire it to the annals of history. Mainly so the spam bots that found it again will leave it alone.

Alright, since even closing this post hasn't stopped interest, I'll share with you one of the crazy emails that I just got. It's from "Sarah" (no, not you Sarah) who writes:



So clearly Sarah hasn't read past the words "Fox News" and didn't bother to read the comments contained here or she'd have realized that yes, I did in fact look into this as best I could back when the story first broke. The lack of major media coverage of any kind outside of a Fox News mention meant I couldn't find much of anything. But all the links are still there, and yes, I'm aware Russel concocted the whole thing. That wasn't immediately obvious.

File this one under crazy stupid legal threats with no meaning.

Hey Samson,
You sound like a complete idiot. You are obviously a racist bigot who has nothing positive to offer our world. You might also want to brush up a little more on your U.S. government and Native American history before firing your mouth off.

David

Wow, Samson, you unlocked this thread again even though, at this point, it's only the morons like the one immediately above who still find it because those of us who are regular visitors go off the front page and the recent list rather than search engine links and newbies who aren't here to be twits would just go off the front page... retiring it back in July was a good idea.

...I dunno, I find it sort of amusing.

Actually I'm with Dwip on this one. I find it highly amusing that people show up here and instead of reading what's been posted they jump to a baseless conclusion about how I'm racist or something. Reading comprehension isn't what it used to be. I think they're just annoyed at the facts that have been posted here.

Bwuaahahahahaha! Samson is Untitled!

That's the second time now you've said that. Care to explain, or do I dare follow your link?

*shrug* I suppose if you're amused by it then it's perfectly okay, it just seems silly to keep having these idiots show up out of the blue every so often only to spout entirely meaningless drivel. It's rather akin to spamming but without even the advertisement link.

As for "Love,PoPo", his (her?) link is just to JustRage, haven't we all been there at least once already? Can there possibly be anything new there worth reading if the goad is just that you've "been Untitled" which in itself seems fairly meaningless already? Perhaps if (s)he provided a link to a specific post there, or at least if it was in reference to one that was recent enough to be listed on the front page, then it'd be at least mildly useful...

A few rather choice emails have sprung up on this topic. I'm responding via admin-comment ( I own the place, I'm allowed, bite me ). Allowing the incredibly ignorant and, frankly, racist comments to be posted serves no purpose. Rather ironic, that, since the people sending emails are some of the most vile and hateful people I've ever heard from in my life and yet I'm supposed to be the racist. I wonder how that works?

Laziness is not a racial trait people. If you're lazy, you're lazy. I don't care if you're white, black, brown, red, green, blue, orange... er... you get the idea. Or at least I'd hope you get the idea. Welfare leeches exist in all colors and in both genders. The Lakota are no different.

Ignorant white man need to die!

Freedom for my people!

It's truly incredible that folks are still struggling to keep this thread active, apparently even to the extent of registering just so they can post silly comments to this thread now.

LittleBigMan:
Death threats are illegal in this country and, phrased like that, make you sound like the ignorant one isn't the white man in this case.
As for freedom for your people, like your people are any less free at this point than any of the rest of us in this country, last I checked, no one was making anyone remain on the reservations these days, if anything, those who choose to remain on the reservations have significantly more freedom than the rest of us in many legal ways. If you really want to feel your people's freedoms are curtailed, come your liberties to those of women in the Muslim/Islamic nations of the middle east.

Analytics still says this thread gets the most hits on searches. It's very strange. Such an obscure issue that most people don't even know about, yet it brings in a ton of traffic.

As far as freeing LittleBigMan's people, they don't seem terribly interested in that. The tribal government does not endorse any of the silliness that Russel Means has been up to lately. Nor does the Department of the Interior, basically saying that if these guys ever rise to the level of breaking the law or denying someone their rights, they'd be arrested. So the Feds aren't even paying a lot of attention to it. Which should tell you something.

That really is incredible. It is a very obscure topic and the conversation here about it really died back in early January of 2008 (two years ago now)...

True enough. Honestly, to those of us who were just superficially discussing the topic to begin with because you'd found it in the news, I can't honestly imagine any of us would care if these people were "freed" or even outright exiled. *shrug*

Free from what exactly? The thousands of US military soldiers occupying your land? Oh... wait.... there aren't any. Honestly, I thought you guys had given up this silly idea of declaring your independence. I guess Russel Means didn't get the memo. The Lakota tribal council has already said the guy is full of crap, so I don't know why any of you are still taking him seriously.

If you are putting your faith in the UN, then God help you, because that's true oppression.

They're still coming to post here about this???
Wow, Samson, back on Dec 20, 2007 you posted this blog entry about an obscure article that should have been entirely inconsequential to almost everyone, and yet, here we are more than two years later and you're still getting not just hits, but additional comments to it from people who seem to think the agenda that the original post was about is still somehow valid even after their own government and the U.S. Government already shot them down completely. It's utterly amazing.. both for the fact that you found some tiny topic that was almost glossed over completely by every media outlet in the country that still draws a crazy huge internet audience for you and in the fact that these people would come here, of all places, to rant two years later that they're still waging this war for their freedom against an enemy that doesn't consider them worthy of notice because they're own people don't...

Oh, and to all you crazies who will feel deeply offended by my preceding "racial" remarks, get over yourselves there's nothing racial about it, I'm commenting on the small group of crazies involved, not the whole Lakota tribe, and I'm only stating plain facts that anyone can easily see and prove for themselves.

Samson's absolutely right, if you're last and best hope is that the UN will come to your aide, you're screwed beyond hope already and that's if they actually do come to your defense. If they don't at least you won't be any worse off than you already are.

I don't really get it, because not only do they show up from time to time, this post is still showing up in my Analytics and Google Webmasters data as the number one page on the site, with the most searched keywords. Baffles the mind.

That website he linked to is Russel Means, it has nothing to do with the tribal council or any of the officially recognized members of their government. Besides, I find it amusing that a fringe group claiming to be an independent nation now would list this as their copyright footer at the bottom of the page:

Copyright © 2010 · Republic of Lakotah · 444 Crazy Horse Drive · Box 99 · Lakotah, SD. 57772 · 605-867-1111

It's almost as though "Republic of Lakotah" is some kind of registered corporate entity, but I don't know where to go to look that sort of thing up without paying someone for it. Zip Code 57772 lists on Google Maps as Porcupine, SD. So who the hell knows what they're up to.

With all the activity your other posts have had, and even ones with really common search terms in their titles like Oblivion and Heath Care Reform and so forth, this Lakotah thing is still the number one search keyword for the entire site?? That is entirely mind boggling. Unless the people behind this movement of theirs really have nothing better to do than to search the same keywords over and over to see if anything new has come up...

Well, perhaps a bit surprisingly, a Google search for Republic of Lakotah turns up about 15,800 hits with safesearch on. I don't know how you'd check to see if they really are registered as a corporate entity other than to check the state registry for South Dakota, but even then if you didn't find it you'd still also have to check with the free states like Nevada and Delaware, if not every other state just in case, to see if maybe they registered there before you discounted it completely. Time consuming, but free. (One of the benefits of my former PI registration and training was that I was taught all sorts of things about what information is legally available to any of us. )