Syrian Civil War

The Syrians are spoiling for a fight with the West.

As if it wasn't already bad enough that there's an uprising in progress there, one of the last of the so-called "Arab Spring". Bashar Assad has decided to cling to power through any means necessary and over the course of the last year or so has resorted to slaughtering thousands of innocent people in the process of trying to avoid being ousted. So long as the Syrians were able to contain this to their own territory, it seems the world was willing to give Assad a pass.

Things changed a few weeks ago though. The Syrians hired some mercenaries who have been systematically eliminating the populations of several villages in the most hotly contested areas. The most visible incident of this happening earlier this month when over 100 women and children were butchered in their homes. All the while, the government trying to blame it on "terrorists". The only terrorists here are the Assad regime.

Somewhere in all this it's been revealed that the US has been arming the rebels, and the Russians are sending ships full of helicopter gunships and other large weapons. It has, for all intents and purposes, become a proxy war rivaling those of the Cold War. Even this could have been ignored and left to the Arabs to deal with though. As much as it pains man of us here in the US to see this sort of thing happening.

Syria decided they want to poke the Turks during all of this. So as a gesture of their stupidity, they've now shot down two Turkish F4 fighters. The Turks are of course understandably angry about this and want blood. Nobody could blame them for this. What the Syrians may have failed to realize though is that Turkey is now in a position to enact the NATO defense treaty alliance because Syria has committed an act of war against them.

The situation has turned much uglier than it was just one week ago. Barack Obama needs to put down his golf clubs and deal with this once and for all. This isn't a situation like Libya where we had no business poking our noses into it. The Syrians have raised the stakes, and quite possibly did it on Iran's behalf to see if we'd even respond. Well that time has come. Putin and the Russians need to back off, Assad needs to step down or be forced out at the point of OUR guns. Waiting around to debate this is only going to result in more innocents being butchered in their homes and make NATO look weak.
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RIP United States of America

July 1776 - November 2012.

       
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Posted on Jun 25, 2012 11:05 pm by Samson in: | 62 comment(s) [Closed]
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You and me both. Could you imagine what the weekly team meetings would be like. 20 trolls in one room can only mean bad bad things.

       
Ok, regarding the original subject: I'm telling you guys, glass skating rink, it's a purely win-win situation. The Middle Easterners get their nukes (albeit delivered live with them as ground zero, but...) and the rest of the world gets peace... ;)

Regarding the idea of mudbytes & mudconnect joining forces to combat terrorism as a trollfest: I'll skip the summary email for those meetings, thanks. :rofl:

       
Conner said:

Ok, regarding the original subject: I'm telling you guys, glass skating rink, it's a purely win-win situation. The Middle Easterners get their nukes (albeit delivered live with them as ground zero, but...) and the rest of the world gets peace... ;)


Kill em all huh? Little bit radical, isn't it?

       
prettyfly said:

Conner said:

Ok, regarding the original subject: I'm telling you guys, glass skating rink, it's a purely win-win situation. The Middle Easterners get their nukes (albeit delivered live with them as ground zero, but...) and the rest of the world gets peace... ;)

Kill em all huh? Little bit radical, isn't it?

Maybe a little, but mainly it's a matter of ending something the only way it'd likely stay ended. It's not like we haven't got almost 6000 years of history for this region to base an opinion on how they're likely to act for a wee bit o' time to come yet. We all know that most of the region has been clamoring for years about how they should all be allowed to have nukes too, I'm just offering to share some of ours with them, albeit armed and detonated upon receipt. :unclesam: :tongue:

       
Conner said:

Maybe a little, but mainly it's a matter of ending something the only way it'd likely stay ended. It's not like we haven't got almost 6000 years of history for this region to base an opinion on how they're likely to act for a wee bit o' time to come yet. We all know that most of the region has been clamoring for years about how they should all be allowed to have nukes too, I'm just offering to share some of ours with them, albeit armed and detonated upon receipt. :unclesam: :tongue:


And you do figure that a lot of stuff that was very crucial to the development of modern society (agriculture spread from there to Europe, writing, a lot of cultural stuff etc) came from the Middle East. Just 500 years ago we were the backward ones and they were very well washed philosophers and scientists. 6000 years have proved that regions have ups and down. And for that matter, the we've acheived far higher body counts than they even have even in recent times. The Yugoslavian Civil Wars certainly put anything acheived in the Middle East since Genghis Khan's time to shame.

       
Edited by prettyfly on Aug 2, 2012 3:06 am
prettyfly, you're arguing the wrong arguments with me, I've been saying for years now that I think the entire word is overdue for a full reboot. Frankly, I'm not convinced that the whole "global warming" craze isn't basically the planet itself agreeing with me and beginning the next phase in the reboot process. Essentially, the planet's "warming" is the shut down sequence's beginning, next the planet will go completely cold (ice age/power cycle) then it'll restart with all sorts of new processes loading up. Alas, you and I won't be around to see what comes next unless you happen to believe in reincarnation, in which case it still won't matter because it's extremely unlikely that you'd remember your past lives. :tongue:

       
Well, you know, there's that whole Revelations book to consider. End Times etc. The world shall end in fire and all that. Whether that be from nuclear war, runaway global warming (caused by the sun btw, not man) or a surprise asteroid collision really doesn't matter.

       
Eh, a 'reboot' would probably most likely come in the form of nuclear apocalypse or runaway global warming (although, we may differ on what is responsible for it). From a symbolic point of view I think it would be more fitting if man was responsible from whatever causes it.

Although, I'm not inclined to see the world as in need for a reboot. Environmental issues aside (a world reboot won't fix that), I think man is doing better than it ever has.

       
A world reboot can't fix what's not broken. The environment is what it is, whether we're polluting it or not. How do you think all that oil got under Alaska if it wasn't due to all the dead and buried tropical plants that once thrived there? Yep, this world has a long ways to go yet before we reach the top of the warming cycle. There will be a time where man will be reading history books about how there was once an ice cap on both poles before the cycle reached its peak and melted them. Antarctica will have lush forests, meadows, and grasslands. The Arctic Ocean will be just like all the others.

That's assuming we haven't killed ourselves before this happens. Then it really won't matter what the planet does :P

       
Sorry, prettyfly, I see the environmentalist in you can't quite grasp the idea that the environment isn't a problem in someone else's opinion but that there may be enough other global problems to merit it anyway.

Hey, Samson, given the global tilting and the expected magnetic polar reversal and all that, maybe some day in the far distant future incredulous students will be learning about how what is now the polar ice caps were once called the equator and the tropic of capricorn and the tropic of cancer and antartica was once a polar ice cap. ;)

       
That would be pretty funny. Unfortunately a polar shift of that magnitude stands a good chance of frying all our electronics and plunging the world into a new dark age first. So they'd be telling those stories at the campfire or something.

I've seen articles that state it would take as little as one month without electrical power to completely collapse all vestiges of modern society to the point of anarchy. Considering even the best of the best estimates from utility companies says it would take two YEARS to repair the damage caused by such an event, it doesn't look good.

There have been polar shifts before, but obviously we were too primitive back then to notice.

       
Nah, we're talking about in the far off future, so they'd have surely developed technology a new by then. If anything, part of the story would be classing the end of our lifetimes as a second dark ages.

I don't know if a month would really do it, but I don't expect that it would take much longer than that. Far too much of our world is technology based for that not to be the case.

       
Well, you know, there's that whole Revelations book to consider. End Times etc. The world shall end in fire and all that. Whether that be from nuclear war, runaway global warming (caused by the sun btw, not man) or a surprise asteroid collision really doesn't matter.


Well thats one book of the bible that agrees with the science, no matter what happens, at some point the sun will die and when it does, it will destroy the earth with it. Pity a date a couple of hundred million years into the future is not going to help some wingnut endtimes cult gain members,

Killing all the arabs is hardly the answer, unless of course you think that the USA or Russia or some other global power should be the next third reich. Personally i am starting to form the opinion that Australia should quit the axis of evil (USA and UK) and align with the one true power, China. That is where the future is, US dominance is waning in as much as the British empire died in the 1900's, US global dominance has started its death spiral, and about the only think that keeps the US relevant are its never ending procession of wars against those of no importance.

Which kind of makes me wonder, would the US population stomach a war against an opponent who actually has guns, tanks and war ships that can actually shoot back and kill? Thankfully those who are in power in the US are not silly enough to entertain such ideas as nuking the middle east, or being utterly aggressive towards China, they own you already, and you do not bite the hand that feeds you.

       
Assad is about to make a really BIG mistake.

       
I look forward to seeing the basis upon which the Russians and Chinese back him up now.

       
If he pushes the issue, I don't expect China or Russia will back him on this one. But, we'll see.

       
So it appears the Assad regime may have deployed chemical weapons and then tried to blame it on the rebels. Shit's not looking good over there.

       
I noticed that. I mean, seriously, did they really think the whole 'the rebels did it' thing would work (of note, however, the US ambassador to Syria has noted that there remains no proof, so there at least remains a chance no such attack took place)?

On the other hand, it does at least mean that the war is getting closer to its conclusion. It just may indicate that the conclusion may be significantly more bloody that anyone would like.

       
I'm pretty sure we all expected it to be a big bloody mess before the end.

And yes, we have no proof, and it's possible that the chemical attack was really just a missile hitting a factory or something, but that doesn't feel right considering how quickly the regime tried to blame the rebels for it.

We know the weapons were combat ready though since we've known they mixed the stockpiles back in December. They're just about to the point of losing their potency so the regime may figure there's nothing to lose now.

       
What is the potency period for chemical weapons again? :tongue:

       
Edited by Conner on Mar 23, 2013 5:57 pm
60-90 days, which would be about right for the time frame involved here.

       
Time to dredge this one up again: http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2013/04/25/hagel-says-evidence-chemical-weapons-were-used-in-syria/

If the Whitehouse and other administration officials are admitting they know chemical weapons have been used, what the fuck are we waiting for? A large scale massacre like when Saddam gassed the Kurds?

       
Because the Whitehouse has a habit of making shit up when it comes to WMD and their use. Just a couple of days ago in at least 3 other news sites the reports were saying that there seems to be no evidence that chemical weapons were used and now you have certain US officials saying they did. Looks to me like all they are doing is sprucing the idea of yet another war that you have no money to pay for to the American People. Plus, they cant even tell who if anyone used it, a lot of reports and evidence point to the rebels using it.

       
Edited by The_Fury on Apr 25, 2013 4:34 pm
Right. So you're basically saying "Yes, Samson, we're waiting for thousands of people to be gassed before doing something".

       
I am not disagreeing with you that something needs to be done, but, and here is my entire thesis, this should not be the pretext for the US entering this. There is so much conjecture about who used them or even if any chems were used that it is the worst reason under the sun for the US getting involved. Don't turn this into another Iraq with the excuse of WMD that just did not exist.

Read a lot of different news reports, there was a rocket attack, there was a smell of chlorine, there is a chlorine plant just next to where this village is, there were dead government soldiers, villagers and animals. It is quite plausible that the factory vented at the same time as the attack from the rebels, and the entire thing is pure coincidence. There are other reports that is was some kind of dirty bomb and it was Islamist Extremists who did it. And there are news reports where US Intelligence says Assad did it, the rebels did it, and it did not happen, so i do not hold much stock in the news services here.


       
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