Empire of the Iguanadons

It's unlikely anyone reading here cares, or has been to see this happen firsthand, but I figured I'd close the issue for myself nonetheless. After involving myself in a thread there ( yes, I know, what was I thinking ) it has become crystal clear that many of the most active members are ignorant, stubborn, pigheaded jerk-offs who participate there only for the purpose of attacking others and tearing them down for no apparent reason. Better still, they've developed a highly evolved system of selective quoting whereby they can damn you with your own words, utterly out of context of course, and claim you support a position you don't hold, and then preach it as undisputed fact to everyone who will listen. Even when the victim of such an assault clearly states, in plain language, that the assertion is entirely false.

So I hear you asking... "What assertion is it this time Samson?" Glad you asked. Or did you? Maybe it's all in my head.

I doubt very much I need to go back into the details of it all. If you need them, look up the tazer thread on MudBytes. The one where things got out of control, Scandum made some statements, I backed him up on it knowing what he was talking about, and from there Cratylus made an ass of himself and got banned. Oh, and where I apparently exposed myself as Hitler incarnate, even after Kayle brought forth specific links to the data I already knew Scandum was referring to. The jist of it is, the data he was referring to, without having cited it specifically, was a crime study that had been done. In that study, it contained data saying that blacks had been arrested more often than whites, or other minorities. It didn't go into why that was, or what was to be done about it. Just presented the data.

I drew one conclusion from that, and one conclusion only. The data supports the logical result that blacks got arrested more often because they simply committed more crimes. But folks on TMC decided that I instead claimed them to be predisposed to crime and that they were being arrested more often because the white cops find them inferior as people. This is most certainly *NOT* what I said, ever, not one time. Though if you take only their statements at face value combined with the clever misquoting and out of context arrangements of literal words, that's what you'd be led to believe. It is false. It is a lie, and as far as I'm concerned it's defamation. There is no evidence to support the charge that I am a racist, or a sexist. Of course they've never let the truth or the facts blind them from their mission: Engage anyone and everyone in a flamewar just because its fun. Or in my specific case, attack me because I stood up to one of their own.

Anyone who has visited TMC in the last 2 years already knows that the situation I describe has been played out over and over again. It doesn't matter if the person they attack is fresh off the street and has never heard of MUDs before, or if they're a seasoned veteran who has contributed many things to the community. If they want to pick a fight, a fight you will have. The end result of this is that TMC has become a cesspool. No longer is it a place where people can go to seek help. No longer is there any sign of meaningful, interesting discussion. Attempts to actually start one very often end in disaster for the person who tried.

The ironic thing about why this happened is that the thread where the gang decided I was meat for the fires started off as a complaint about Threshold spamming old threads - a practice commonly called thread necromancy. In and of itself, this isn't generally a bad thing. But he combined in-message signature advertising ( 5 lines worth ) with "me too" style responses, and threads that were over a year old in some cases. A generally bad combination. I commented a few times about how all I was complaining about was the spamvertising. TMC has a proper sig section for that. Cratylus chimed in, and he and Threshold exchanged a couple of posts, when I made the big mistake of commenting about how Cratylus isn't a saint and that people were treating him like one. Apparently a big mistake, because that's when all the haters lept upon me like the trolls and wolf in the image I used for this post. Threshold escape the thread more or less unharmed, while according to a number of people there, my reputation has been destroyed. Or something.

Frankly, in hindsight, I'm not sure why I should give a crap what a bunch of hate mongering trolls think of me. They have no real influence over anything I happen to enjoy doing. My general participation on TMC hasn't extended beyond maintaining a MUD listing and some links there for quite some time anyway. Aside from the occasional post where I tried to help someone. The actual respectable ( and truly respected ) members of the site stayed out of the fray, although Hades Kane did try and intercede there at the end after I finally recognized the futility of it all and gave up. A lot like that poor legion horse in the pic, who shortly after the guard was slain died for no good reason because the wolf and trolls were still bored and hungry.

I'm sure the denizens of TMC are going to be happy to see me gone, only because they can now trumpet their victory in driving me out. Hades thinks the site can still be saved if we stand against the shitstorm. No offense to him but I think he's going to find out soon enough that it can't be saved. It's beyond redemption. At least on the forums anyway. There is a pretty major reason for this, and is something I've advocated for awhile, which no doubt contributed to the general hatred toward me. TMC is completely unmoderated. Basically an anarchist's anything goes haven for whatever they feel like posting. Icculus rarely if ever does much about the needless attacks on people. He seems to only step in in cases where there's actual porn being posted, cases where he could get sued for libel, or deliberately evading his profanity filters. His administration style may have worked 5 years ago when folks in MUDs were generally more respectful toward each other, but it's over now and this method no longer works. The only person who can fix TMC is Icculus, and sadly it seems he's either not interested, or is scared he'll chase away his only really active users. I don't know about a lot of people, but I think he should risk chasing them away. It worked plenty well enough for TMS.

I've ranted enough. Symbolic as it may be, I've torched all my personal bookmarks to the site, to make it less tempting to go back and witness the aftermath. I'm sure I'll still find out one way or another, but hey. I could give a fuck now. They've lost any chance that I'll ever be willing to try and participate there again.

BTW, Andrew, if you happen upon this, I'm sorry. But it's well and truly gone too far.
.........................
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

Oh, I think it's a safe enough assumption that a few of those of us who read here either care and/or have seen it first hand.

As it is, you already know my sentiments on this. I think that Icculus has an easy enough domain name going on over there that you could always revisit if you get too curious or the withdrawal gets too rough but overall, I think that you've done yourself a favor. I still read the daily summary email every day from there, but, personally, I've determined a long awhile back that the site had gotten bad enough that it just wasn't worth actually posting anything there anymore. Some days it's really not even worth reading the summary either.

Oh sure, it's not terribly difficult to type in the domain name and end up there. But why would I needlessly subject myself to that anymore? The site is filled with hate mongers who don't even realize that they're the true racists. I'm no psychologist but I recognize projection when I see it. They were projecting quite violently.

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I did myself a favor. As one of them said somewhere in the thread, I've been lynched. The word itself has plenty of racial overtones, and I wasn't the one who used it. Ironic, I think. Anyway, this summary digest you get, what sort of a format is it in? One never knows if returning someday to configure it would be less of a hassle.

It appears you have found some support on Mudconnect from a surprising source. Manna_MRE is frothing at the mouth.

I suppose I should be appreciative of the gesture, but it comes as too little, too late. Especially given he/she was one of the instruments of the attacks against me. Hopefully everyone there is having some nice laughs at my expense.

Didn't read the entire craplet of a thread, just the most recent ones. Here's a few snippets, since I'm sure you don't want to go back to TMC:


Manna_MRE
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Also, I'd just like to add in a seperate post (for your quoting convenience) that I believe the lynching that was done to Samson here was uncalled for. It's very hard to defend against claims of racism, sexism, or other forms of bigotry because you can't just pry open your mind and show everything. Samson is brash and likes to defer blame and as such is unlikely to ever give an answer that he as an implied and accused racist can "redeem" himself with.

We can split hairs all day about what a particular sentence might or might not have meant but when it gets down to it, it doesn't really matter if Samson is a racist at heart. As long as he doesn't try to bring his race hating rhetoric into these forums, his belief system is absolutely fine to hold.

This site has a mostly American slant but even Europe has some belief in the concept of freedom of speech. A man (or woman (or hermaphrodite)) should not be judged by the content of his mind, but by the actions in which he takes. The late Charlton Heston was a firm believer in white rights, but he also marched with Martin Luther King, long before a fight for equal rights was trendy. Some would say even at a time when it was dangerous.

Charlton Heston's words could be interpretted many different ways, but his actions were pure. His actions showed character, a form of character that's rarely seen in this world of political correctness and a fear of rocking the boat. Anyone reading this thread would know I'm no fanboy of Samson, but I believe he's been wronged here and honestly think he deserves an apology. I shant name names, but it's one slippery slope when you can ostracize someone to the point of exclusion over the supposed thoughts existing in their heads.


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MM


cratylus
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"We can split hairs all day about what a particular sentence might or might not have meant but when it gets down to it, it doesn't really matter if Samson is a racist at heart. As long as he doesn't try to bring his race hating rhetoric into these forums, his belief system is absolutely fine to hold."

I hear you, and I agree that "Is Samson racist? [Y/N]" is
totally, totally pointless as a debate topic.

And for the stomping on him that happened when he
was already broken and in pieces, I am not proud, and
I'm not proud for whatever role I played in that.

Having said that, and while respecting your position,
I have to say that the subject, while pointless to
debate, is not wrong to discuss.

Let's change it up and say the question is whether
he is a communist, and that he has said all sorts of
things about one person being an enemy of the
proletariat, and that person being a counterrevolutionary,
and let's say that horrendous flame threads have exploded due to
bannings and gags generated from discussions about
communism on forums he admins.

He can swear up and down that he's not a communist, but
that just isn't the point. His *behavior* is at issue,
and in examining his attitude and statements about
communism, and observing his bizarre behavior when it is
discussed, the general stability, trustworthiness, and
integrity of the person can be examined.

I do not believe the crucifixion here was for the
crime of racism. I honestly don't think people care
whether he is as or more racist than their granny, or
their cousin or best friend or wtfever. I think people
have plenty of tolerance for someone they know and respect
having insane ideas.

I think Samson hoisted himself up
on a cross of his own design involving his obstinate
refusal to accept other people's opinions as valid.
The racism crap is just the medium. The substance was
Samson being an incredibly poor example of leadership.

I believe that folks here are sick to death of Samson
showing up and trying to re-litigate the Mudbytes thing
anytime the topic of "Cratylus" or "bans" comes up. I
think it's actually that simple. He showed up with his
usual annoying schtick, and people have lost the
willingess to put up with it, so they applied to him
the instruments of rhetorical stress he's most susceptible
to. If he were a crypto-commie, they'd have been on him
about that, IMO. Instead they were on him about this other thing.
It is normal because his behavior is annoying. The subject
is relevant because of his standing and influence in the community.

Whether this kind of vigilante frontier justice is acceptable
is a good question, and a hella good debate that will hopefully
take us to my 200 get. But I think it's too much to ask
that folks apologize for reacting aggressively to
someone who has been unrelenting in his dogged resurrection
of an old grudge every time the opportunity arises.

Obviously my analysis involves the kind of attempted
mind-reading that both Threshold and Samson have been
accused of in this thread, so I will concede that I am
on pretty shaky empirical ground. I can only defend my
opinion as being perhaps a reach, but a sincerely held one.

-Crat


Manna_MRE
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member since: Apr 5, 2008 In Reply To
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QUOTE:
Buncha crap from Crat
/QUOTE

While what you're saying may be true, that does not make it proper. I am one of those people tired of Samson playing the holier than thou card and unhappy with his leadership on MudBytes. I've made that very clear, where it needed to be made and possibly even overstated my case (although I think not).

This seems to be more a case of looking for a reason to hate him than proper vigilante-ism. To use your communist example, perhaps Samson said something about the government helping people with healthcare. Or maybe he mentioned something about the inequity between the upper and lower classes. Suddenly he's labelled a communist. What he said can be interpretted many ways and I don't care to split those hairs with people, but the accusations are unnecessary and irrelevant. His belief system is irrelevant.

I believe that Samson was wrongly treated in this case and heavily flamed over the issue of purported racism. Thought crime. Maybe I'm a racist too, when I've annoyed people enough? After all, I'm here defending Samson even if I disagree with his statements and just about all of his actions. Perhaps there's another bogeyman that can be drawn out against me when the time comes to seek vigilante justice against me?

Would that be right? Would that be excusable? If your answer to that is no, then apply the same logic to this Samson incident. What happened here was wrong. Beyond all else, if you're negatively judging a purported racist by his believed beliefs then you yourself are being prejudice.

Prejudice doesn't just apply to a race itself but to prejudging a person based upon certain characteristics. Is it okay to be prejudice of someone who may have beliefs that are currently considered "wrong"? Is prejudice against hippies any more excusable than prejudice against Mexicans?

Both are attacks against an entire class of people by a class on the opposite end of the spectrum. Whether the attacks are based on beliefs or race is irrelevant. What happened here was wrong.


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MM


Anyway, hope you're not taking this too harsh.

Even this is still a bit of an unfair assessment. Sure, I'm brash, egotistical, pigheaded, stubborn, and opinionated. You'd think I would have fit in perfectly, except I don't fit in with their other solidly held political beliefs which shine through bright and clear.

The reason I can't give an answer that won't redeem me isn't because I haven't tried. I did. They've simply chosen to ignore it - heads buried in the sand as it were. I'm taking it all about as harshly as one should expect. Which is to say, they're all bastards and I've had enough.

If this treatment had been attempted face to face, people would have been hospitalized. At the very least, the cops would have needed to be involved because there would have been fights. You simply don't get away with this sort of thing anywhere but an unmoderated cesspool of a site. Certainly not on a civil site, and definitely not on one where the operators actively approve comments before they're posted. You'd never get away with the riot they started in a school assembly filled with teenagers, nor would you be able to hold a rally in the streets like this without someone getting hurt. But on TMC, anything goes, and it's open season on anyone they decide they hate. They decided they hate me.

So while I find what you've quoted me to be an unexpectedly nice change of pace, you should read the part Crat quoted back a little closer because he's still trying to slip in the implication that I'm a racist and that he was banned for no reason. Which is where this all got started to begin with. Ironic, since Cratylus claim to be in favor of the very same free speech he's using to condemn me for a thought crime I haven't even committed.

For Cratylus to get all high and mighty about my standing and influence in the community also suggest a serious lack of perspective since he's already been banned from 3 sites ( well, 2, the toading isn't a total ban ) and frankly I think he's still sore about it.

I'm just a lurker so I'm sort of fence sitting on this, but I don't think you can give an answer on your own that they would receive because of your current position in the community. Crat's response is pretty dirty, but that's Crat for you. Manna called it a bunch of crap, which gave me a laugh. I wonder if he's going to be the one flamed next, now that he's defending you. Guy was flamed recently in the Aetolia thread for posting reviews. Probably won't take long for it to seep to other portions of the site.

Well if they attack him for defending me I can't say I'd be at all surprised. It wouldn't be the first time it's happened.

The fact that they'd refuse to accept an explanation given by me just because I'm an admin in the community is speaking volumes to me about their true problem. It had nothing to do with racism. It had everything to do with them knowing I don't support unrestricted forums. But since they can't mount a logical argument for why that's a good thing without someone bringing up the troll factor, they chose instead to assassinate my character.

If he's been flamed on other portions of the site already, he's probably been targeted. Such is the way of things there. All of the sane people in the community I hang out with left long before I did.

I honestly thought it'd been made pretty clear some time ago that it wasn't really about racism or sexism, those were just the cards they were playing this hand, the game was about lighting your fire.

Of course it was made clear, anyone with half a brain could see it, including myself, but my own intolerance for lies being told about me was more powerful. Go figure, I have issues with folks who spread lies about me.

I also find it interesting that someone pointed out to me via email that mann_jess is "tired of seeing it in every thread here on TMC" which is in itself a pretty telling thing. It says one of two things to me:

1. It is in fact in every thread, in which case I'm not the one who's been making an issue of Cratylus being toaded from MudBytes. Someone else is.
2. mann_jess and everyone else involved ONLY participate in the flamewars where Cratylus' name gets mentioned.

Either way, it's indicative of something. Either Crat really is a bastard from hell and everyone loves to remind him he was banned, or the involved parties are in fact all trolls who leapt upon me for no other reason that to troll.

Surprisingly that thread is still going, but it seems to be tapering off. Manna seems to have ripped apart mann_jess's excuses post, if that's any consolation to you. Not sure if you're lurking on mudconnect anymore or not. BTW,
I like your "most recent posts" on the lefthand side. Did you code this forum software?

Well I guess I should be thanking Manna for at least having the moral courage to realize what happened there was wrong. I'm not surprised the others don't realize this or won't admit it. Catching them in any situation like this never results in them admitting they were wrong.

I'm sure you mean the recent comments box on the right?

In any case, yes, I had a pretty big hand in development of this blog software. Pretty much everything after 1.0 was my doing. If you're curious about it, the link is at the bottom of the page. The software is called Sandbox.