Empire of the Iguanadons

Just another random posting. Figured folks might be interested in what drew people here in 2009. Yeah, it's about 3 weeks late, but better than posting it in June, right? :)

Top 10 Google Search Queries

1. "empire of the iguanadons" - Why people would specifically search for the title of the site is beyond me. But they did, and in large numbers.
2. "medievia" - Not as much of a surprise given where links to my site show up most. I expect this won't be nearly as prominent in 2010.
3. "iguanadons" - I think these show up here largely because it's a common typo for Iguanodon, a type of dinosaur. Though I'm probably a dinosaur in my own right.
4. "oblivion plugins" - Shouldn't come as a great shock to anyone who has followed more recent postings. What's shocking is that it rose so quickly from complete obscurity in 2008.
5. "iguanas" - The pictures alone probably draw these in.
6. "empire iguanadons" - Lump these in with #1 really.
7. "lakota" - It's like the Energizer Bunny of blog posts. People are still linking it in droves, and people still show up here in searches for it.
8. "2009 obama agenda survey" - This one surprises me mainly because I can't be the only person to have posted something on it.
9. "9/11/01/2996" - This is what I get for using things like this in movie reviews. No, you conspiracy theory nuts, the post has nothing to do with 9/11. (Oh jeez, just wait, the 2010 figures will be off the chart for it now!)
10. "mudbytes" - In two short months, it lept up from nowhere to the #10 slot. I doubt I need to explain why.

Top 10 Visited Pages

1. The root node. Which I guess is good, because it means a lot of people are showing up from links to that.
2. Lakota Independence Perhaps the reason the topic won't die is because there's a surprisingly large number of people linking into that specific page.
3. MudBytes Backstabbers From non-existence to 3rd most visited page here. Jesus people. Maybe just a reflection on today's culture over all that a rant post rockets to such popularity in so short a time. 2 1/2 months. Amazing.
4. Thought Police I hardly expected that topic to register with very many people. I guess I was wrong. Though partial credit has to go to #3 for this one since several anons skewed the figures.
5. The downloads page. It's not like I have a lot here folks, but you guys sure seem to love it all the same!
6. The image gallery, and further broken down, over 95% of you are sifting through the Oblivion stuff. Which isn't a surprise since it makes up the largest chunk.
7. The Medievia page. No doubt heavily visited due to how heavily sig-linked it is. Yes, I deliberately linked the keyword to the page URL. I'm just that mean.
8. Saviors of Cyrodiil That one goes back quite a long way and yet seems to have gained quite the following for some reason.
9. My Radeon 4870 X2 review/rant. I must have done something right, or got someone's attention somewhere because a whole bunch of people have read it.
10. Fallout 3 I guess more people than I figured ended up reading it.

I won't bother listing referral sites since they're all from image searches. Except for the #1 slot, which Dwip can take a bow for as my most frequent referral source :)

Oh, and hey, all you lurkers, speak up. Say something! We don't bite. Much.
.........................
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

The downloads page, I know I've grabbed a few things from there. And yes, that reminds me, still anxiously awaiting the DB update!

As for the Mudbytes Backstabbers page, if the hits got more popular in Oct and forward it could be courtesy of the justrage post. It also gained disturbing interest at the beginning of Jan on IMC, so I'd suspect a lot of the hits are linked from justrage.

Ok, I spoke up. My name is Hana, and I'm a lurker

Heh. Well. I guess I have a few gems in there aside from he Oblivion mods. I really should throw together some kind of ACP page to display general download stats in a convenient place. I really have no idea what people grab since the individual files weren't in the listings I looked at.

The hits on the backstabber page spiked immediately. It was brand new in the middle of October and hits to hit have been sustained ever since. If it's come back up as a topic for conversation on IMC, that only tells me I'm better off not subjecting myself to the bile and hatred that goes with it. If some fool on justrage linked it there, that would explain why they started showing up in my Analytics logs around New Years.

I was talking about the numerous other lurkers who are here and say nothing. You at least spoke up

Considering that most of the people from my place have also been regulars here forever, I find that last bit interesting.

As far as the #8 page, clearly it is a testament to the awesomeness of Cat-Fu.

Yes, 3 weeks into 2010 is much better than 6 months into it. *wink*

The problem with telling the lurkers to speak up because we don't bite much is that they're lurkers and already know how much and how hard we bite. *wink* *L*

You know, one of these days I really need to go browse my way through a bit of Dwip's blog site myself, if just to return the favor of his sending so many to your site. *LOL*

This one i can partially answer, it is because i do not bookmark the site and use the google search in firefox to go everywhere i want to so, in part, i am responsible for at least some of those searches. And if i do that regularly, i guess others do it too.

Peace out.

The_Fury.

What is this just rage post that everyone keeps talking about. I went to cratholes mud the other day to troll him for giggles and was accused of being the mastermind of it all and on IMC with crataholic saying he is 80% certain it is all me. Like i know its easy to accuse me cause well im not active in mud circles and have no outlet to claim innocence, with my innumerable bans . So seeing people think its me, can someone link to it so that i can see what i have been upto in my sleep.

Peace out,

The_Fury

I don't know what they're talking about either. That's not a site I visit at all, except when someone provides a specific link to something they want me to see, and even then I hesitate. It's nothing more than a vile hate site full of truly lame threads and emo teenagers crying on each others shoulders.

Actually, I do this too, but only when I've installed a new browser or changed out computers or, for whatever other reason, don't have access to my bookmarks/favorites. So, not nearly often enough to account for much of the numbers, but enough to account for a few of them.

I'm with Samson regarding the justrage site, it's not worth linking to, if you really feel bored and want to numb your brain, go to justrage.com and search for Samson, Kyndig, Cratylus.. etc.

Thus spake Cratyfuck:



Nope. It's because the forum has a long and sad tradition of assholes like yourself trolling and expecting to get away with it even when people call you out on it over and over again, including the site's admins.



Actually it's more like typically the troll would goad an admin repeatedly until said admin had enough and locked the thread. Usually nobody was banned unless said fuckbrained idiot (aka Cratyfuck) continued to make an issue of it, much like you did right here, today, in this very thread!



Actually I was thrilled to death to see Davion finally do something about you for a change. Unfortunately his spineless side shined through and he let you back on after your minions complained as they always do. You never will get why people think you're a pompous ass worthy of no respect, will you?

And oh, look, maybe Davion is finally sick of your shit and maybe, just maybe, us crotchety old farts here at JustRage have had something to do with it. I certainly hope so, because it's pretty fucking obvious as hell that Samson got shafted and NOTHING has fucking changed there at all!



This cockshit right here is why the fuckbrain should have been banned years ago, his account purged, and his legacy of dumbfuckery forgotten today.

Suspended for trolling, but somehow it must be something "personal" that caused it instead. This sounds way too fucking familiar. Samson definitely got the shaft and now Davion is getting served the same shit we've all had to suffer through for years.

Oh no, it seems more or less spot on. That sums you up as well as anyone else could have done.

Hey Davion! Get it right! Ban him and don't look back! Ignore the asshats on IMC if you need to!

I have to say, seeing Davion reverse the suspension reeks of an administration with no backbone that can be pushed around easily. Expect Cratyfuck to do exactly this again and resort to the same loud angry tactics in order to make you piss your pants and back down again. God. I wish Samson were back. Even if he was an asshole at least we knew where he stood.

Christ, even the king of trolling himself gets it. Good fucking lord!

No. Davion's error is not realizing that you are acting in bad faith sooner than today. If he'd realized this something like, oh, 3 months ago, you'd be out on your ass and Samson would still have his administrator's position.

Let me be the first to suggest Davion get himself a nice comfy pair of "Samson boots" and use them to kick you in your fucking head you piece of shit!

I wonder the same thing. You just need to remember that Samson was never the problem. Cratyfuck was and always will be. Get rid of him, and all this bullshit forum drama will go away. Davion just doesn't have the stones for it.

*facepalm*

It never ends.

I bet I can sum this up really easily:

* Crat did or said something boneheaded/offensive/rude/trollish.
* He got told to stop.
* He ignored the warning.
* He got suspended.
* He ran immediately (within seconds) to IMC and ranted and raved about it all day and night, going on and on about how awful the rules are or something and that he has no idea what he did wrong. It must have been because he called Davion a name, or because Davion hates him, or because Davion is a crazy lunatic batshit insane fascist.
* The usual trolls piled on and said the admins were fascists.
* Davion caved in and unsuspended him, but is still a complete imbecile for having done it to begin with.

Do I have that about right? I think so. That's pretty much a textbook exchange between Crat and the administration of every site he's ever been a part of.

Look, while I appreciate the sentiments being displayed here, none of this is making me want to waste time participating when it's obvious nothing has changed. I doubt it ever will change. It looks like Crat has chosen his new target. I suppose it's poetic justice.

There is only one way I would ever consider being reinstated to the site and that's if Cratylus is permanently banned from it. Nothing will ever get resolved so long as he is allowed to engage in personal attacks against users for his own twisted amusement. Maybe people will finally realize this and quit defending the guy. He's a troublemaker, nothing more. He has no contribution to make aside from the weekly dramafest he thrives on.

Now, please, if you anons don't mind, I'd rather you didn't spew this drivel here unless you've got something more productive to add to it than random quotes from the logs. You won't likely find anyone here who doesn't already know what the root cause of the problem on MudBytes is.

Well, you did ask the lurkers to speak up.

But seriously, you are spot on about your summary because we all know the continuous pattern by now. What I don't understand is why Anon brought that drivel here and thinks anyone here actually cares any more. Anon has issues, more than just being a freakishly stalker-like dedicated fan of yours.

Hey, Anon, there's other things in life to be passionate about than useless internet drama. Turn off your computer and go find them.

Yes, but I was hoping the lurkers would have something other than this crap to talk about

Well atleast someone can attest to the fact that i am not the that author of the just rage stuff. Other than that, ANYONE who thinks that Craticunt acts in good faith is a freaken MORON.

He is a manipulator with a god complex, he is always right, you are always wrong, he always fucks you up the ass in good faith, he is nice to people while he can get something out of you or he will use you as a pawn in his schemes to get someone or just keep you around as a play thing for him and his butt buddies on I3.

You can be assured that Cratabuttplug wants mudbytes, because in his twisted mind he is the only one in the entire world who knows how to run it successfully, because he is the white muslim jesus who can safe us all from ourselves, he tried to mold me into a graven image of himself, and instead got himself a whole world off butthurt, so much so that i am not banned from his mud .

Oh the joy,

The_Fury.

Good point, Hanaisse, Samson did ask the lurkers to pipe up. *LOL*

Seriously, while it is amusing to see it happening, exactly as always but to Davion now instead of Samson because Davion decided that Samson was the problem instead of Cratylus, honestly it isn't unexpected and even those of us who aren't home to see it all as it happens don't care enough anymore to want the whole blow-by-blow accounting either.

And, yes, Hanaisse is undoubtedly right about the accuracy of the summation as well simply because it's a very set pattern, what law enforcement refers to as modus operandi, for Cratylus.

Sadly, I can't see anything to argue with in The_Fury's depiction of Cratylus either, except to say that I honestly doubt Cratylus actually wants MB beyond the influence he can exert on it via trolling tactics to take advantage of weaknesses he perceives in the admins. Overall, I suspect that Cratylus is, in fact, "a manipulator with a god complex".

Real Software Developers all know the following:

They know how to program using micro-code, machine code (opcode & operands), Assembly, C, C++, C#, Java, SQL, HTML, Perl, Fortran, Basic, Artificial Intelligence.

They know how to use an Oscilloscope, Communication analyzer, Emulator, Multi-meter, and Logic Analyzer.

They know how to use any software debugger tool, create scripts for integration and system testing, as well as being a proficient code inspector.

They are adept at object oriented design, high level design. They know how to create a code standard document, a requirements document, a system software design document, and a users manual.

They are adept in communications and attend regular meetings to report progress, and to suggest correction or enhancement to on-going multiple projects.

They have knowledge of operating systems, multi-tasking, real-time, etc.

They know how to write interrupt and non-interrupt driven drivers.

They should be at a level where they can just look at a method/subroutine as a picture in their head and point out all of it's flaws within a minute.

AND MUCH MORE!!!

IF YOU HAVE THE ABOVE QUALIFICATIONS THEN YOU CAN REPLY TO THIS RAGE!!!

OTHERWISE, GET THE FUCK OUT OF HERE!!!!

You are right here Conner, Cratynoob does not stop, it does not have the ability to stop, because in its mind, only it is right. Davion is now, Kiasyn will be next and then anyone else who stands in its way of Mud domination. And while you might not share my view of a bleak future, we can all sit back and laugh in their faces saying "I Told You So".


Mostly, we are the lucky ones, because, for varying reasons none of us are there and we no longer have to be witness to the same old shit time and time again, cratfuck gets boored, cratfuck manipulates up a shitstorm, shitstorm ensues for weeks flowing over into other sites, cratfuck gets banned, cratfuck gets unbanned and people bury their noses deeper into his giant rectum than last time, rinse and repeat as the cycle continues. Cratyfuck is never at fault, and somehow this Machiavellian shit covered manipulating fuck is able to wash him self clean of it all and come out smelling like roses, being the new messiah to all those to bask in his glory.


The tragic part is that a certain element of MB refuse to see the reality of the situation, i saw crat for exactly what he is a long time ago, it was the reason why i got myself banned from IMC, because i made it my mission to fuck with him as much and as often as i could. The guy is shit and the sooner others work that out the better it will be for them.

About the only thing I'm still bothered by in all this is that I've told people that for ages but they just called me crazy. It's so obvious though. Even if it's not strictly a god complex, it's definitely a superiority complex.



I never even considered something like that, but yeah, it does make sense. He knew i'd never turn the site over to him, and I'm willing to bet Davion wouldn't do that willingly either, so that means Crat needs to get him fired too, but since Davion pays the bills, owns the shell, and has control of 2 out of 3 domains pointing to the site, that's an impossible task to fulfill.



No. They see it. The problem is that certain element loves this sort of thing. They thrive on watching it as much as Crat thrives on causing it. So while removing Crat from the equation would blunt the problem, it's possible the 5-7 other folks who back him would make that a nightmare for whoever is left running things.

Then it sounds to me like the simple solution is to remove the 6-8 of them altogether and see if they're actually missed a month or 12 down the road. Personally, my money's on the absence only being noticed due to the ensuing return to peaceful and productive operations of the site.

On a completely non-MB related note, I posted a quiz on my blog (along with my score) today at [url]http://pewresearch.org/politicalquiz/quiz/index.php[/url] for those of you who might find political stuff more interesting than <sarcasm>the legendary legal case of Cratylus v. MudBytes.</sarcasm>

The Prophet Crathumad the Muslim Jesus looked into the future and could see it would be filled with drama. Funny that, because he is the root cause of all drama currently affecting all of muddom.



You will find that without its head, the best of many will simple wither and die, take out Cratahole and David the troll and the others will simply fall into line, actually even David would most likely fall into line after crats gone, its not like he is a troll on gammon.com.au or smaugmuds, so without a trolling stimuli most of them would simply stop or leave and join cratahole at dead souls, the most aptly named mud i have ever had the displeasure of being on. They are all dead all right, and take great delight in destroying others for fun.

Oh and yesterday i googles up this just rage that everyone has been talking about, what a waste of my time, but its good to see people signing my name to posts i did not make, i am so glad to have had such an effect on them that they need to keep my memory alive just to make their puny existences feel just that little bit more important. Way to go Crat and Stupidstrad, you are the kings of nothing.

Good survey there Conner - folks go drop by and take it. It's probably not going to surprise you when you're done, but it might surprise you where the rest of the public stands.

@The_Fury: Yes, that's my take on the whole thing too. Get rid of Crat and the stimulus behind the entire problem goes away. Only you can't just stop at banning him from the forum, you have to ban him from IMC as well or he'll just continue to use the medium to spew his hate and attack the administration.

David does just fine when he's not paired up with Cratylus, so I could see him actually becoming a productive force with Crat removed from the equation.

I've been on Dead Souls before too, so I know. That's all they talk about is drama stuff so it hardly surprises me to hear Crat predict the obvious since he instigates nearly all of it himself. Self fulfilling prophecy.

Do I want to know what's on that justrage page? If someone is wasting time impersonating you, were they impersonating me too? I don't get it. They wanted us both gone. So why keep harping on the fact that we are?

No one is impersonating you, but there are some who are defending you that you would be best off not having defending you, LOL. My take on it is that it is a total waste of time and energy from powerless people who have no real life to speak off what so ever. Its just a mass of spam and sock puppetry.



Because we are punching bags who fight back and they need someone to hate them, so they can feel. It is also bragging rights for them, its like, look who we killed, if we can kill them, we can kill anyone. I'm just glad that im out of it all and that i am no longer compelled to fuck with them anymore, im free, you are free, conner is free and the rest can eat the corn out of my shit.

Glad you liked the survey, Samson. I shared it here because I thought you would, but I agree that others should go take it. It makes Obama's election make much more sense when you realize what the majority of voters out there don't know.

Fury, I think you're probably right, while David and I have had our share of disagreements in the past and personal personality conflicts as well, I do respect his programming skills and think that without Cratylus' influence he could actually be a pretty useful guy to have on the forums (any of them), as long as he can remember to keep his own issues in check, which he seems to do most of the time fairly well when not paired with Crat. Crat's other followers might still need at least one or two specifically banned with Crat to really solve the problem, but the main thing is, as Samson rightly points out, that you've got to banish Cratylus from IMC as well as MudBytes or he'll just continue his campaign from the sidelines instead of the mainstream and nothing will really have been accomplished except to provide him a means to say "see, they got rid of me and the problems continue at MB so it must not have been me at fault" again.

I've never bothered to actually visit Dead Souls, beyond their website for info regarding I3 awhile back and the occasional glance at info regarding his codebase itself, but I found that reading dry enough to not be encouraged to actually log on to his mud.. not that I ever really had the time for it anyway. *shrug*

I'm sorry to hear that they've been impersonating you at justrage, Fury, but I can't honestly say that I'm surprised. I suspect that your hypothesis of why they would keep reminding themselves of you and Samson isn't far from the mark.

Well if the admins had followed the Nexus forum example of how to properly handle the public notice section, those instigators would already be banned and none of this would have happened. They could be off bitching about it on Dead Souls, or on Crat's completely inane rule14 forum. Obviously you'd need to block Dead Souls from accessing IMC, but since nobody in the administration knows how to work the software they'd just have to suffer with Crat's endless hostility. Rest assured though, with him gone, the forums would settle into normalcy pretty fast. All someone has to do is have the balls to deal with it, and ignore the feigned outcry over the invented injustice of it all.

I'd not waste time with a visit to Dead Souls itself. Once was enough to see that Crat spends an unhealthy amount of time there bitching endlessly about everything that's wrong with everyone. Except himself of course, because he can't possibly have flaws. Considering he banned Fury for standing up to him, it's ironic that he thinks standing up to me was somehow justified

I'm not really even considering wasting my time with a visit, but I thought fury said he wasn't banned by Crat???

Technically i am not banned, but Crap has me on earmuff so that he does not have to listen to the grief that i cause him, which is more or less a ban of sorts. If i was to create a bunch of characters over and over to bypass the earmuff i would be banned, he is just not important enough to me to bother going to such effort to be a prick to anymore.

Decided to go pay a visit to the logs out of boredom. Mostly inane crap. I'm really glad I gave that up a long time ago. But that quote there I find interesting despite it coming from Crat. Here's why.

About a month or so before I got the boot, I proposed to Davion and Kiasyn that we toss QSFP on its ass because it wasn't fulfilling what the community wanted. I am the first to admit it's a hackery of forum software that itself was hackery of its predecessor. It's hard to work with, unfriendly to upgrading, the templating system sucks balls, the PM system is a complete piece of shit. The only thing it has going for it is that it's secure and the DB interface is solid.

What I wanted to replace the site with was Invision's IP.Board software. After having seen it develop into something truly useful over at TES Alliance I was fully prepared to buy the site license myself and write whatever conversion utilities were necessary to convert the repository and forums over to it. IP.Board has come a long way, TESA has made it into something that would have suited MUD developers just fine.

As you can probably imagine, I got no traction on that idea at all. None. Not even a peep about how good or bad the software was or anything. The typical zero communication that Davion and Kiasyn both made their normal deal. I guess I should be glad now I didn't just act on the desire to pay for a site license and actually improve the website. Knowing those two, they'd have fired me without bothering to consider the consequences and I'd be forced to waste a buttload of time having the software license declared void so I could take it and use it somewhere else.

Ah, I understand, Fury. So, I was right in recalling you having said that you weren't banned, but you are silenced which is almost (and that's a BIG almost) as good as being banned on a mud.

Good decision on your part, Samson. I strongly suspect that you're dead on about how that would've gone down. The question is, had you gone ahead and bought the site license and gone through all that, would they have reverted to what it still is otherwise now or would they have just continued to use the newer software with an invalid license or would they (Davion) have shelled out further to buy their own site license instead? The reason I didn't go with Invision for my sites was the cost of the license. While I will agree that upgrading QSFP is a pain in the butt, especially if you want to keep your previous modifications to things like the templates and such, I otherwise have been mostly pretty happy with QSFP and rather thought you were too.

They wouldn't have had much choice. Invision is pretty aggressive about pursuing unlicensed use of their work. I doubt Davion would have parted with the cash.

Upgrading is one of the biggest reasons I think the software never took off. Too easy to break things. If you don't need to upgrade (yeah, right) then it does the job just fine, though it's still pretty rough around the edges. It's still better than relying on bugware like phpBB though.

Tough choice for moose boy, beer or software: its like asking him to go to alcoholics anonymous for a week and worship a new god. Actually you should have put him in that situation, he might have self combusted.

The way i hear it, is that in the Unites States of Canadia, they are banning Tazers because the drunks explode in a torrent of flames when tazered. Also Enron Corp is planning on increasing the ethanol content in its petroleum products. It plans to increase ethanol production by squeezing it out of Canadians. Davion says the ethanol miking machine tickles when in use.

I just sent Samson an email that will confirm that not only was his own account compromised, Davion and Kiasyn have both had their accounts compromised as well. He should be able to verify certain facts pointing to Cratylus and Sinistrad doing more than just plot a coup from Dead Souls. The accounts remain compromised to this day and changing the passwords will not fix the issue which allowed this.

I will only say that the fault does not lie within the forum software but within another application mudbytes is relying on and that they will not find any traces of it in the site's apache logs or sql logs or anywhere else they might think to look.

Fury, you know more about this than you realize. You know who did this even though you aren't aware of it.

Erm, if you're trying to insult Davion then please focus on him, not the millions of others, myself included, by referring to Canada as the United States of Canadia. I'm sorry, but I take slight offense.

(Also, Enron was an American company that went bankrupt in 2001 due to corruption)

@Samson: It's a tough call, he did part with the cash for the domains and server, but we are talking about a lot of cash for a site license for invision...

As far as QSFP, I suppose that's true enough. I've effectively partially upgraded the last couple of times and it's all still working for me, sans a few of the newest features that didn't make the partial upgrade through fault of my own... *shrug*

@The_Fury: um.. nevermind, I'll just respond to Hanaisse, she's got more worth responding to this time.. but she's also got a couple of valid points you should probably be taking note of too...

@Anonymous: Gee, how.. cryptic? So, you're saying it's not a security flaw in apache, mysql, or QSFP.. I suppose that much is good to know.

@Hanaisse: Wait, are you offended at being lumped into the insults with Davion (understandable) or at Canada being implied to be tied to the U.S. (not so understandable...) and, before you go defending "the millions of others", can we at least note that a few exceptions within those masses do exist who definitely don't deserve the defense? (e.g., Lazerous being the first to come to my mind...)

Regarding Enron, try to keep in mind that Fury's news sources tend to be somewhat tainted and his political facts are often skewed by the liberalizing media he subscribes to...
...on the other hand, Playboy had a fairly decent take on Enron back when it first fell... 0

Sorry Hanaisse, its a bit of an in joke about how Davion aka The Moose Boy was trolling in a MB thread about someone in Canada being Tazered and dieing, that thread went to shit and a bunch of people got suspeneded over it and if i remember correctly, Samson was made to quit over it, the first time.



I have no idea what you are talking about. Sounds like some tin foil hat conspiracy to me, if you have something substancial to add other than wild half baked rumours, then by all means point them out, if not, go away and dont try and bring me into your fairy land of peoples accounts being stolen.

Oh i thought Enron was a great company to use in my somewhat off beat humour, the irony of a failed company using some wacked out idea to gain enery etc, i know irony is usually wasted on Americans, its more of a UK centric type of humor. People need to not be so sensitive about things, if i had a dollar for everytime someone said to me that Aussies are convicts, i would be an extreemly rich man.

Now there is some irony for you The Communist Fury in the den of Conservatism. Atleast we can have a giggle about it.

Nutty as it sounded, Anon did send me an email. He hasn't named this mystery person Fury is supposed to know, but the email came with two very large file attachments. Both of which were database backups obtained from the site along with copies of Apache and SQL logs, just as he said. I can't imagine how QSFP could have a flaw allowing this kind of access, but the information obtained looks to be a month old DB dump from the site.

Now before anyone goes wild asking for copies, you can forget it. Nobody is getting these aside from the Linode abuse/security team since whatever breach exists has allowed root level access to the box. Whoever it is likely still has access to the account used for this. It wasn't clear if it was Davion or Kiasyn that got nailed, but it could well be both of them.

I find this a little concerning, the linking of my name with this kind of makes it sound like i am behind it. I do not condone illegal activities, hacking being one of them, no matter how much i dislilke Davion, Mudbytes, IMC or Crat, if i had any information about such things, i would supply such information to them and or the authorities, which ever is most relevant.

Maybe you should email Davion and Kiasyn, Samson and show them what you have, so those pair of incompetents can find and close whatever hole they have introduced to the server. As much as we all dislike them, i dont think anyone here other than anon wants to be apart of this rubbish.


The_Fury.

You are a better man than I am Fury. I have done my due diligence in reporting this to Linode and I have no intentions of contacting Davion or Kiasyn about it. I certainly don't want to be a part of it either so if Linode doesn't want the files I'll be deleting them. Let them square whatever is broken with Davion. I don't want anything to do with him unless he's calling to say Cratylus was banned for life.

Oh i overlooked where you said you were reporting it to Linode, thats as good as anything you can do, and washes you hands of the whole affair, to my way of thinking.

For what it's worth, Fury, I figured this to be just more of his (her?) attempt at being all cryptic and conspiratorial. *shrug*

Irony isn't wasted on some Americans, but other aspects of the post take priority at times, in this case, you ruffled Hanaisse's feathers so I was addressing that first.
Wait, you mean all Australians aren't criminals or decedents thereof?

You even included my out-stuck tongue in what I said... And I didn't accuse you of communism, I just said that your news sources are skewed by their liberalism, which I believe we've reasonably demonstrated in the course of several threads now, most recently the stuff about Ted Kennedy, but despite that I meant it mainly in jest, hence the "". *shrug*

That is pretty alarming. I don't know about MB specifically and I wouldn't want copies of the aforementioned attachments even if they were offered, but I was under the impression that QSFP, in conjunction with Apache/MySql, was fairly secure and I would very much like to know about the actual breech.. or, more specifically, how to fix it.


I emphatically agree that I strongly expect no one involved in this site in any capacity, with the duly noted exception of "Anonymous", is likely to want anything to do with this sort of thing in any way, shape or form. But as Samson said, I can't really see waving the flag of truce to proffer evidence that would help them with security like that knowing they'd only immediately accuse the person making the offer of having committed the crime or at least of trying to blackmail them with such evidence. I also agree that turning it over to Linode security sounds like a great solution for the crime itself, but as a member of the QSFP "community" and a user of that software, this is very disturbing news and I'd really be much more interested in how to fix the security hole as quickly and securely as possible than in what sort of justice might be attainable. Granted, that's an entirely selfish perspective, but it is my first and foremost concern. (Given that many other software packages, including Sandbox, quite possibly possess the exact same security hole (perhaps especially Sandbox given it's ties to QSFP), I'd think that should probably be a primary concern for most of us at this site.)

The QSFP code is open source. If anyone wants to take a look at it and scour it for vulnerabilities that could lead to a root escalation, I'd be all for it. I seriously doubt any such thing was to blame on QSFP itself because hackers like this aren't that selective in their targets. Other QSFP sites would have been hit, and there'd be some sort of report about it by now on secunia.com or milw0rm.com. The underlying QSF and possibly Mercuryboard code would also share the same risk, and nothing has cropped up there either. It takes a very serious error for a root escalation to be possible. I'm not talking about just compromising the forum accounts or the user account the site runs in. I'm talking about ROOT being breached since the email contained Apache and SQL logs that could not be obtained by a user-level escalation.

So if you don't mind, can we please not hit the panic button against QSFP or Sandbox just yet?

Well, there is certainly some consolation to be had in that statement, and sorry, I didn't mean to be hitting the panic button against either product, but it definitely gets my attention when a site running the same software I am gets cracked to the root level.. on the other hand, breaching the security on QSFP still shouldn't give you root access.. unless the admin's account uses the same userid and password as their root account, but that's more about social engineering and getting awfully lucky.

There's a big difference between the site getting cracked and the forum software being the vector by which it was cracked. Anon said it was another application. Got me what that might be, but Davion has all sorts of shit running on that server that have nothing to do with the website. Once root escalation is achieved, all bets are off after that.

That is true, and he did say that, in fact I'd responded that it was good to know that it wasn't apache, mysql, or qsfp. I would still like to know what the actual vector was and how to fix it in case it's something I'm also using. I guess I did start sounding like I'd assumed the worst for QSFP, but I really was thinking much more in line with the notion that, since the method wasn't actually stated, whatever method someone used to get in was possibly something most QSFP sites would also be susceptible to, even if it was just a case of social engineering. After all, while most of us wouldn't consider using the same password for our QSFP logons as we do for our root logons, we do certainly each know our own root logons and could potentially be tricked into revealing them. But I really am not nearly as concerned by the social engineering method as other possibilities.

You know what would make this totally ironic, would be if it was the IMC routers being used as the backdoor. Highly unlikely yes, but man that would make it all bitter sweet for me. One can dream of such a day.

I can top that for you, Fury, what if it's Talon that's being used as the backdoor for all this? The "mud" Kiasyn built solely to serve as an anonymous IMC access point for anyone who wants to use it... now that'd be irony.

(Not to mention it also being far less of a security threat for those of us who are still connected to IMC even if we mostly ignore it these days. Oops, too late, I mentioned it... Personally, I still use it to watch the inews channel regularly when I'm connected to my mud so I really wouldn't want someone to figure out how to hack into the IMC routers to be able to hack sites connected to IMC.)

It wouldn't be the first time the IMC systems have been hacked, so that's a possibility. The last time I knew anything about it was when someone framed Fear for trying to hack into the router I used to run on Ntanel's network back in the day. Those issues that allowed it were fixed, but since I'm not a network security guru type it's possible I didn't find all the holes.

Talon as a vector is certainly possible but far less likely since it doesn't handle routing or anything like that.

It's actually pretty sad in any case. They've taken what was once a great resource and turned it into the second I3. Full of nothing but hostile people and inane conversations. Even if I hadn't been banned from the site I would have dropped the connection by now due to the total moron factor. It just isn't a useful feature anymore.

Fair enough, and since you've left IMC and MB, regardless of the circumstances, if it was via IMC (or Talon, for that matter) it's not your problem anymore.

Nah, I doubt it was Talon, even if Kiasyn botched the security on it badly enough to leave a means for someone to take over root beyond Talon's directories, I was just saying that it'd be much more ironic if someone had used Kiasyn's IMC 'MUD' as a vector to take over the server Kiasyn and Davion are running than if someone were to have hacked in through an IMC router.. and of course safer for those of us who are running muds connected to IMC too.

I still like inews, but otherwise I'd have to agree, even inews is much more useful anymore when no one's adding their two cents like we used to do. It really is sad because, frankly, IMC was a great idea that was serving it's purpose beautifully right up until shortly after Cratylus found his way to it.. much like I3... hmm, coincidence? Nah, I don't think so. *sigh*
Prior to that, it served as a friendly helpful place for mud staffers to keep from boredom, help one another with code/building questions, and even exchange ideas and also for mud players (those rare times one would venture to a player channel) be able to play games and chat with folks from other muds. Not to mention a good place to catch the latest headlines and discuss them with others without creating a flamefest. I'd gotten tired of Fear and David awhile before Cratylus came into the scene, but it wasn't until Cratylus started using IMC as a means to antagonize you that it really ever truly got to be a hostile environment.

It's called copyright, you pathetic retard. Anyone anywhere can ask that their posts be removed for copyright reasons. You knew this though. You're just trying to stir up more shitstorms for your own amusement. You should have been banned long ago.

BTW, pretty amazing how all this kind of shit still happens even though Samson was supposed to be the source behind it all. LOL!

Back again I see?

As far as the conversation quoted, removing a thread from view by request of the OP is something I would have honored as well. Though with the new public notice system I would have posted something there. In my world, OP has every right to ask that their thread be locked, deleted, archived, shat on, or otherwise removed from view if they want.

The difference is, also in my world, as the site owner I have the right to refuse to do so. When someone posts, they are giving implicit consent for the website to display that content. Essentially an implicit license if you will. That license generally isn't revoked just because someone changes their mind and decides later it shouldn't be posted. So I fail to see how copyright comes into play here unless "graham" intended to file a DMCA notice or a C&D notice to have his content submissions removed. The chances of this happening are pretty slim.

Yes. It is interesting how these shitstorms I was supposed to be singlehandedly responsible for still manage to come up when I'm no longer participating in the farce they call a community.

I'll second what Samson said. If you register and create a thread on one of my forums and then decide later that you want that thread removed, depending on the content of the other posters there and your reason for wanting it removed, I may or may not honor your request, it's entirely up to me. On the other hand, if you just want all your own posts removed, I'd probably honor that request without a second thought after I'd given a shot at convincing you to change your mind since it really does ruin the flow of any thread that you'd posted to. Copyright really isn't involved because you've agreed, during the registration process, to that implict license that Samson referred to making the content essentially all mine to handle as I, or one of my appointed moderators or my wife, as co-owner, deem appropriate.

As for Samson being the sole source of all the woes of MB, we all knew that wasn't the case long, long before Samson left the site.. in fact, most of us knew who the real source(s) were quite some time before Samson left the site the first time.

But it can be a serious argument and two very public example of this already took place when you fuckwads drove Samson AND Conner out by making them feel unwelcome because community standards weren't just unmaintained, they were assraped with a barrel cactus.

Too bad you fucks wouldn't let Samson give you the finger and keep doing what was right for mudbytes.

The more I watch this farce over _graham, jenni, or whatever he wants to call himself today, the more I'm convinced they should reinstate Samson and then kick Davion and Kiasyn out. I am more and more convinced that Samson took the fall for the entire administration being dumbfuck morons.

ROFLcopters! Now they let people lock their own threads! Bwuahahahahahaha! This is too much!

Another newbie to mudding wises up, sees the community for what it's become, and moves on before wasting any time on it. All thanks to the MB troll force. LOL!

Wow, I'm truly flattered to be held up as a shining example of an 'oldbie' (is that a word?) of a caliber with Samson. That I can't argue the sentiment either is a shame but also speaks well of our anonymous poster, even if (s)he insists on continuing to post about this stuff...


Again, as tired as I am of hearing about this stuff, I can't argue the point being made...


You're still not entirely convinced of it even at this point? I was pretty convinced awhile back that you'd already figured that much out.


While I fail to see the humor in that because I find it really sad, I do agree that it does sound like a step too far to me... on the other hand, I'm not running that set of forums for a multitude of reasons and I can't argue the right of the owners to choose to allow such a thing. On my family blog site that I'm running on QSFP I allow original posters to lock their own threads, but I also only allow specific people to be original posters in their own forums - rather like a blog site. On my mud forums, however, only staff members can lock a thread because, unlike a blog site, that's supposed to be a forum site where the mud staff get to also act as moderators. *shrug*


Again, you'll have to forgive me for failing to find this humorous since I can only see the disheartening aspect of yet another mud newbie being effectively evicted from a potentially useful community endeavor that should have embraced the opportunity to help one of it's newest potential contributors, even if inadvertently due to their routine trollish behaviors... perhaps it's even sadder because of how it's happened. If it was one of these folks who just doesn't find the specific help they wanted quickly enough so they abandoned the 'community', maybe it wouldn't even be a loss... but to have someone bright enough to catch on early into their venture into the community that it's a hostile environment be forced to leave because they can see any chance at potential isn't worth the hostility... *sigh*

I was kind of hoping my not responding to it this time would be taken as a subtle hint.

It's all been said and done before. So why keep rehashing over it again?

Locking one's own thread? I'm not sure that's such a great idea. That leaves open a serious exploitable loophole. Someone could come along and post a drive-by full of factual errors and then lock it. This would force someone trying to point those errors out to have to open a separate thread somewhere else to refute them. It doesn't really solve anything.

As far as chasing off the newbie, I certainly hope they don't take Scandum too seriously. He is what he is. Usually harmless. There are plenty of other folks who are a lot worse than that who should be avoided.

Sorry, you probably had the right idea.

Very true.

Agreed, that's why I wouldn't allow such silliness on my own forums, and why I pointed out that where I would allow the original poster to lock their own threads is only on a blogging site where the original poster is one of the trusted bloggers.

True, but we've seen it happen before even over at TMC and, while I'm personally not real happy with MB at this point, I cringe at the thought that it's become a second TMC as far as newbie impressions go for reflection of the mud community as a whole.

We are talking about mudders here Samson, subtle is not something they understand, I too have been avoiding posting, its not like this one aspect of this one thread has not been done to death by anon and there is nothing to gain for any of us by playing into this game.

Peace out,

The_Fury.

Unrelated: If any of you noticed the spambot that got past the filter, it's been dealt with. It also brought to light something I need to address in the image comments area. Good thing this software hasn't seen a release in ages

I noticed it this morning although one could truly call it spam, might as well have been in Russian for all it made sense.

On another unrelated note, Samson, was that really you on IMC last night? :o

Chinese spambot. That's why it made no sense. Akismet has caught on to them though and blocked dozens more this afternoon.

Yes, that was really me. Oblivion is being a cranky bitch and I got bored.

Yeah, I saw the couple of posts that Akismet let slip through but I figured you'd catch them and it'd be easier to deal with if no one commented on the spam itself.

Wow, I missed Samson returning to IMC? I finally got home last night and then had to get a wrecker to come get my four wheel drive vehicle out of the mud once we finished unloading it. Go figure, I can drive down a three mile road that's basically a shallow river of mud with no room to even turn the car, but it gets stuck in my own driveway. *sigh* (On the other hand, now I _KNOW_ that I really need to fill in that hole that's making the six-eight inch deep puddle every time it rains.) Then, as if that wasn't fun enough for us, while I was outside dealing with the wrecker, one of my kids powered down my server that had run for the last three months... it was a long night and today has been an even longer day with a way too early start considering the night before. But we are finally home and all of our animals even came out to greet us this morning, none of them having fallen prey to coyotes while we were gone!

It was about 7 or so spams in total, some hit the gallery, which exposed a lacking function in the ACP which I've still been too lazy even today to fix. So there may be some weirdness in gallery comments since I killed them directly through the database.

Yes. I popped back in through Talon. Been there most of the day today too since Oblivion is angry at me for trying to play it. Or at least angry that I want to do stuff in Cyrodiil since Elsweyr isn't a problem. It's been somewhat amusing to see the latest meltdown more up close, because it's revealed to everyone where the real problem with admins at MB lies.

I think you really do need to fill in that hole btw.

Ah, the bot must've still been active when I was on then because there were only two when I had seen them.

Sorry to hear that oblivion's been giving you trouble still.
So our anonymous friend has been giving us the real scoop then?

Yeah, but it means either spending the money to have gravel brought in or spending the hours and hours moving dirt from elsewhere on the property by the shovelful, and right now I'd be pretty hard pressed to find any dirt on the property that isn't heavily water laden mud. Money's a bit tight, so for now I'm just parking outside the front gate and carrying my daughter to/from the car along with whatever else we've been transporting that trip. (She's the only one of us who doesn't have boots that fit her currently and her little sneakers are just too pretty to ruin in the mud... *wink*)

Our anonymous friend has been more or less right, but seems to be missing several of the finer details. I suspect whoever it is isn't as familiar with the situation as they claim. The basic jist seems to be that Cratylus trolled a couple of newbies. Got himself suspended by Davion. Kiasyn didn't know anything about it and reversed it later the same day. The whole time Crat was suspended, he spent the day on imc bitching about the situation. The reversal made him happy, but only serves to make the administration look weak. As though they were Obama

This second incident though is a bit more complicated. The basic jist here is that Cratylus appears to have trolled another newbie, then also linked them to some solid advice. Somewhere in there, Davion told him to knock it off. He didn't follow their newly established procedure for posting warnings in nice bright yellow text which set off the usual shitstorms. Then apparently some threads were locked, and no notices about it were posted. I was only half paying attention to the people explaining all this, but it looks like what happened when I went to see for myself on the forum. Warnings given incorrectly, no proper notice made. An open & shut policy violation.

The whole thing with people being able to lock their own threads arose from all this. During one or the other of these messes, someone named Graham asked for his post to be deleted. Kiasyn moved it to a protected forum only the admins can see. Another shitstorm unto itself rose from this. I guess in an effort to salvage the fuck up, they gave people the ability to lock their own posts in the advertisement forum. Which hasn't been reversed yet and is still an exploitable situation waiting to happen.

Yes, Crat's been his usual rude self about it all claiming Davion is dogging him for purely personal reasons, but despite all this, he has a valid point that policy was violated. Davion pays the bills though, so fat chance getting him fired over it. Fun times, yes?

Also today was the first time in eons I can remember where everyone involved in all of this was online in the same place at the same time, however briefly it was.

The age old choice. Spend money or time. Unfortunately you're probably right about all that mud. Best to wait for it to dry out before you think about filling it in yourself. Then you'll know better if it's even feasible to do yourself.

@Samson; Ah, ok, just making sure it wasn't some imposter You never know on Talon.

@Conner; Welcome home!! Hope everything went well, at least better than a big hole in the driveway

@Conner: Driveway repairs and rock/earth moving are definitely a couple of the really fun parts of rural life. Done that a few times. Good fun.

As to the rest of this, sheesh. Makes me glad I was a hermit builder type.

Regarding the fun at MB: Sounds like Davion and Kiasyn dug themselves into a nice deep hole this time, with Cratylus' aide naturally. Makes me very glad that I'm not actively watching, let alone involved, anymore.

Regarding Talon: I agree, it's much safer to question the identity of folks on there, especially when the person in question is known to have left IMC completely some time ago. On the other hand, I suppose this situation proves that Talon was a good idea even if it leaves some obvious gaping security issues, particularly when it comes to identities.

Regarding the driveway: The real fun is, as we saw over the summer when we dug our burn pit, you have to catch the ground somewhere still damp enough to be able to break the soil with a shovel but when it's not so saturated that it's too heavy to move, so in the end we'll probably go with a combination of the two solutions. I'll move just enough dirt to loosely fill in the big holes that are currently puddles in a few days when they dry enough to be able to see their bottoms and then I'll pay for several truck loads of gravel to be able to make it actually look like a driveway instead of an extension of the dirt road that's not nearly as well packed. *L*

If I had the funds, I'd have the holes filled from a truckload of sand, then put down a sheet of engineering fabric, then overlay it all with a few truckloads of base material, and finally top it off with a few truckloads of "crush and run". I almost wish I could just asphalt the whole damn thing, but even just doing the rock resolution may be out of my budget. The reason it'd take so much is because the driveway is tear shaped and about 250 feet from the gate back to itself, and about 8-10 feet wide at the narrow points and 12 feet wide at the gate. Add to all that the fact that I've been told that, to do it right, I'd need about 6-9" depth of gravel.. relatively simple enough math, but gravel is sold by the ton (crush and run costs around $12 or so per ton and regular gravel costs around $25 per ton) and you get about a cubic yard of gravel per ton.. but you also have to pay for the delivery and how many truckloads it takes depends on the size of the truck, but the delivery fee is going to be affected by mileage and the price of diesel ..anyway, suffice it to say gravel is still much cheaper than asphalt (especially in long term maintenance) and crush and run is considerably cheaper than gravel but takes more of it to do the job. The engineering fabric is almost negligible in cost (something like $1.20 for a roll that'd be big enough to cover the entire driveway).

A week before he was sworn in, Obama jammed part two of the bank bailout down the throat of his own party — a $350 billion accomplishment.

Two days after he was sworn in, Obama banned the use of "harsh interrogation" and ordered the closing of Guantánamo.

A day later, Obama reversed George W. Bush's funding cutoff to overseas family planning organizations — saving millions of lives with the stroke of a pen.

Three days after that, Obama gave a green light to the California car-emissions standards that Bush had been blocking for six years — an important step on the road to cleaner air and a cooler planet.

Two weeks after that, Obama signed the stimulus bill — a $787 billion accomplishment.

Ten days after that, Obama formally announced America's withdrawal from Iraq.

A week later — we're in early March now — Obama erased Bush's decision to restrict federal funding for stem-cell research.

In April and June, Obama forced Chrysler and GM into bankruptcy.

In June, Obama reset the tone of our relations with the entire Arab world with a single speech — an accomplishment that the Bush administration failed to achieve despite a series of desperate PR moves (anyone remember Charlotte Beers?) and a "public diplomacy" budget of $1 billion a year.

Also in June, Obama unveiled the "Cash for Clunkers" program, a "socialist" giveaway that reanimated the corpse of our car industry — leading, for example, to the billion-dollar profit that Ford announced on Monday.


So STFU stupid redneck repubtards!

These are not things to be proud of. Borrowing good Chinese money to throw at bad US businesses that got themselves into this mess is never the way to solve things. Let the fuckers fail, let them fail bad and then let smart businesses buy out the mess in a fire sale. If i am irresponsible with my business i will go bankrupt and my family will be living in a station wagon, someone will buy out my assets and take over my clients and they will make money out of it.

All they have managed to do is lumber the US public with more than 1 trillion dollars of debt that they have no means to repay. Pretty retarded really. Cause at the end of the day, you will eventually have taxes the height if the Empire State Building, interest rates in the 20%'s and inflation running out of control.

Dear Mr. Anonymous, I think you've misunderstood. We were well aware of every one of those things (and plenty more as well), but we see them a bit differently than you do apparently. Allow me to demonstrate with your list by restating it as we see them:

A week before he was sworn in, Obama jammed part two of the bank bailout down the throat of his own party — a $350 billion expenditure that accomplished nothing positive even though he campaigned on a platform claiming he was opposed to the bailouts, only the first step toward spending more tax dollars than any previous president ever had.

Two days after he was sworn in, Obama banned the use of "harsh interrogation" and ordered the closing of Guantánamo, thus granting Miranda Rights to prisoners of war and violating the tenants of the Geneva Convention by continuing the "harsh interrogations" on American soil in secret rather than being honest about it and the reasons for holding such prisoners in Cuba as Bush had done.

A day later, Obama reversed George W. Bush's funding cutoff to overseas family planning organizations — spending millions of tax dollars again with the stroke of a pen on foreign interests while continuing to completely ignore issues here at home.

Three days after that, Obama gave a green light to the California car-emissions standards that Bush had been blocking for six years — an important step on the road to hurting the car industry and establishing his belief in the fraudulent "global warming" hysteria.

Two weeks after that, Obama signed the stimulus bill — another $787 billion expenditure that we couldn't afford during a recession that was bordering on full scale depression which, once again, failed to actually help the economy.

Ten days after that, Obama formally announced America's withdrawal from Iraq, and yet we're still over there this very day over a year later demonstrating to the entire world once again that Obama is all rhetoric.

A week later — we're in early March now — Obama erased Bush's decision to restrict federal funding for stem-cell research, yet another step toward trying to outspend any other president in history and all during a brutal recession.

In April and June, Obama forced Chrysler and GM into bankruptcy thus taking a huge step toward destroying the free market upon which this country was founded.

In June, Obama reset the tone of our relations with the entire Arab world with a single speech — an accomplishment that the Bush administration failed to achieve despite a series of desperate PR moves (anyone remember Charlotte Beers?) and a "public diplomacy" budget of $1 billion a year -- even at the cost of insulting the Queen of England (one of our primary allies) by doing the unthinkable and bowing before the king of foreign power even though no president in the history of our country has ever done that before because they all understood that doing so would designate that king as sovereign over our president, not to mention insulting every American who ever served in our military (myself included - you're welcome, since I know you were about to say thank you for my service to this country during time of war as a good citizen would to any veteran...) by apologizing to the muslim world for our actions and what we stand for.

Also in June, Obama unveiled the "Cash for Clunkers" program, a "socialist" giveaway that reanimated the corpse of our car industry — leading, for example, to the billion-dollar profit that Ford announced on Monday -- all in a last ditch attempt to save an industry that he personally tried to destroy. Oh, and Ford's profits had nothing to do with Obama beyond the fact that Ford had refused to accept Obama's aide because their leadership had the foresight to realize how disastrous it would be to them.

Perhaps you should go read Samson's post predicting how Obama's reign would turn out, he's been dead on with most of it.

Jesus Conner, you ninja me on my own blog? How dare you! I'd call Obama's Gestapo on you, but thankfully he hasn't put that together yet. You get to live, for now

I wonder if StifflersMOM cares to come back and discuss all the "good" Obama has done by selling all our debt to China so they can control the destiny of our nation for us.

Also, you forgot that Obama not only forced GM into bankruptcy, he fired their CEO before that. Effectively nationalizing GM.



I have to comment on this one though. The cash bleeding aside, if you think "family planning" means "help raising the kids" you're sadly mistaken. That's Democrat code for "abortion clinics". Instead of saving millions of lives with the stroke of a pen, he's condemned millions more around the world to die as part of the overall Progressive agenda to exterminate the lower classes. I for one don't much care for the idea of my tax dollars being sent to foreign countries to slaughter their innocent unborn.

Um, sorry? (Guess I don't hang out with enough of the younger set often enough or something, but I don't know what that actually means.. the: "you ninja me..." part.)

I imagine she'd love to, thankfully she hasn't made an appearance yet, eh? :D

Nah, didn't forget, I was trying to limit my commentary this time to what Anonymous posted, but that probably was a point worth including since it was part of the package of what he did for the car industry, or at least those parts of it that were foolish enough to accept his "help".

I'm really too outraged at the sheer quantity of tax dollars being sent overseas rather than getting used here to really care if it's for helping orphans, feeding poor, or even slaughtering unborn children. But I can see your point. Ultimately, I think Mr(s). Anonymous was a bit too concerned with proving we are all just "stupid redneck repubtards" to realize how stupid his/her post would make them look here.

Well in this context, "ninja" means you beat me to what I was going to say. It isn't limited to the younger set as far as I can tell, but does show up in forums they occupy more often. Usually being ninja'd means I actually post nearly the same response as you, but I hadn't quite gotten to starting my response so it's only a token ninja

There are justified uses for tax dollars being spent overseas. Funding foreign abortion farms is not one of them. The myriad of other foreign grants we send out should really be loans, but I think we're all smart enough to know they'd never get paid back anyway. Maybe we should just do the same with China and tell them we're not paying

Ah, learned something new.

I suppose that there are, but on a personal level I find it really hard to see a valid justification for overseas spending while not spending on homefront needs. Either way, I would certainly agree that foreign abortion farms are not justified overseas expenses even in good times. I'd also agree that these days most of the national debt (both what we owe and what we're owed) are basically mere paper trails anyway, but I suspect China already knows this as well as we do.

Bwahahahahah! Fucking cocksucker. Hostility is all you value! If accurate fact was more important, Samson would still be a fucking admin you piece of shit!

Why don't you go tell this to crat, Mr Tough Guy, you are preaching to the converted here, and, well, for the most part, we don't give a crap. Grow some anonymous balls and go to dead souls and tell crat how you feel in person. I'm sure he will tollerate you for a little while, and when you push the right buttons he will block you.

@Conner, im sucked you have never heard of ninjaing before, in Eve online, a good way to make money early on is to ninja salvage, pretty much you get a cheep ship with a big cargo hold, load it with salvagers, tractor beams and a probe launcher, then you go out and probe down a site where someone is running a mission etc, then you fly in and salvage all the wrecks, it pisses off the person whose wrecks you are salvaging, but there is nothing they can do about it.

@The_Fury: "sucked" is a new term on me too.. but I don't play Eve online, nor WoW, nor most of the other MMORPGs out there. *shrug*

LOL yeah i meant to write SHOCKED, i could make excuses for the typo but i can't think of a good enough lie to tell you

ATTENTION AUSTRALIAN MEDIA:

You may have heard of a group called "Anonymous" making a stand against Government Censorship.
Though not an organised group as such, the motives of all involved in the actual cause are purely benevolent.
Certain individuals would have you believe that this protest is being staged as a retaliation for the Government "messing with our porn". This, however, is completely untrue. Just as in any protest there are those who are only in it for the spoils, the same can be said in this instance.

The Australian Federal Government would have you believe that the proposed internet filtering system will protect children. Several experts have spoken against this, as it will instead lure parents into a false sense of security. Not only that, the proposed filter would also slow internet speeds by an average of 30% and block innocent websites. The prototype filter blocked many innocent sites including that of a Sydney dentist, a canteen lady, and several other businesses.
It is the opinion of all parents aware of this issue that the responsibility for protecting their children should remain securely in their hands. An arbitrary decision such as this on the part of the Australian Government voids basic parental rights.

The Federal Government has entered into discussions with Google, regarding their aim to censor YouTube. Google is against such action, as YouTube already forbids illegal material. The government wishes to extend censorship to cover subjects such as euthanasia - an aim that Google is strongly opposed to, due to their stance on free speech. Discussion of controversial subjects is vital for democracy to exist.

This proposed "solution" by the Australian Federal Government will not in fact make any progress towards solving the issues being targeted.

Concealing the existence of a problem from the public can not and will not ever solve the problem itself.

Yes, I've heard about this "Operation Titstorm" that's all the rage right now. You might have missed where this isn't an Australian media site though.

I find the comment about Google pretty funny. If they're such staunch supporters of free speech, why did they allow the Chinese government to censor Google in China? Google's stance on free speech only seems to come out when it won't harm their profit margins or when they catch hackers rooting around in their servers.

Who cares, i am Australian and i don't give a rats ass about the whole thing. It will not impact on my internet usage as i do not surf sites that would contain illegal, racist or other illegal materials and i don't surf porn. So my freedoms as an individual are not going to be impinged upon. In fact, the vast majority of regular law abiding citizens surf pretty much as I do and they too will have no great issue with these measures being introduced.

Filtering porn, warez, hacks, racist, hate and information relating to illegal activities I support fully. This might impact a small minority of people who think it is their god given right to look up kiddy porn, animal porn, race hate, plans to make atomic, car or people bombs etc. Criminal activity and access to materials to conduct said activities is not the right of any citizen and I fully support the removal of access to such information, if it is actually possible.


@Samson: you are correct, google does not care about free speech, it cares about google and the almighty $$. For sure China is about freedom of speech with things like Tianiman Square, but the blocking of child porn or other illegal activities is not the removal of ones right to free speech, its the denial of ones choice to perform and illegal activity.

Free speech should be a right in any free society, but if that right causes a harm to another individual, then the government has the right to limit or stop such an action. This is a basic principle of the major ethical theories that make up democratic society. See liberalism, consequentialism, utilitarianism, and the works of Locke, Rawls and Kant.

Well ok, here's the thing. I went and checked into this little game Anonymous seems to be playing with the Australian government. In a nutshell, this is what I get from it:

* Aussie government bans porn with women who have small breasts.
* Aussie government bans porn depicting female ejaculation.

I see why they're up in arms about it. Small breasted women in porn is perfectly legal. Provided they're above the age of consent in Australia. The government's argument is that it too closely resembles child pornography. CP is illegal in pretty much every country already as far as I know. Last I checked, small breasted women are nothing new.

The female ejaculation thing I simply don't get. The claim is that it looks too much like female urination. Is it seriously illegal to show pictures of female urination in Australia? If so, I'd say you're already well on the way to destruction since there's nothing illegal about that as far as I know. Barring it being children of course.

Censorship is evil and wrong and should be fought. This is where I part ways with Anonymous though. You do not make right a grievous evil by committing one yourself. Hacking a computer network is illegal. If the Australian government decides to go hardline about this, a whole mess of Anonymous members around the world are going to get busted and taken to jail. You don't really get much of anywhere on an issue like this from a jail cell.

Your argument of "well I'm not doing anything wrong" sounds an awful lot like the attitude a lot of Germans had prior to WWII. Eventually a lot of them were accused of doing something wrong even if they hadn't simply because they spoke out. Even worse still were the people hauled off who laid low and stayed out of it. It's a very dangerous way to think, because for now it's small boobs and female ejaculation. Next it might be Anime (not that I like that crap) and after that it could be edgy comedy with sexual jokes. Where do you stop? The slippery slope is well oiled.

LOL! But it's ok to kill millions of civilians in Iraq, right?

Personally, this would be far more than enough to raise red flags over all by itself:



I honestly don't recall any of us having ever said such a thing. On the other hand, from what the liberal media would have us all believe, are you entirely certain that there is such a thing as a civilian in Iraq? Personally, I do endorse the notion of ending the problems in the middle east in one fell stroke by dropping nukes, but I also fully realize that it's a totally unrealistic solution because of all the other ramifications and thus I wouldn't support using tax dollars for that if I was asked, but then I wasn't asked for approval of the spending of tax dollars on foreign abortion farms either, were you?

@Conner: Yeah, I'm not at all convinced ANY of them have benevolent motives here. The whole thing seems more about the porn than anything else. We all know the Australian government censors things online and has been for quite some time. It would hardly surprise me to find out the Aussies have now added 4chan.org to the filtering system. Considering what that place is like, I'm surprises nobody has been arrested yet.

@Anon re Iraq: Your figures appear to be slightly off. Allow me to demonstrate. See? 104,000 is significantly smaller than unspecified millions. And this even appears to be a left wing biased website, so the numbers are probably inflated. As far as I can tell they're also not being terribly specific about who they accuse of doing the killing. Some bombings are listed, some executions by gunfire. No separation between the civilians we killed and the ones their own people killed. War is hell. Civilian casualties cannot be avoided when the civilians become the combatants.

I think what you are confused by is this. Saddam Hussein did kill millions of people. Millions of his own people. Spread out over 2 decades. He also killed quite a large number of Iranians too. He did this through the use of chemical weapons. But I bet you're one of these people who would have called him a freedom fighter rather than a terrorist mass murderer.

Regarding Australia: Frankly it still doesn't sound nearly as tough as the national internet restrictions in China, and while I'd certainly be proud to stand up for the rights of small breasted women to bear their bodies for all the men they want to, I think this sounds like a bunch of hoopla over nothing. But I also think PETA should demonstrate and protest much more frequently too solely because I enjoy the show, not at all because I think they're right... on the other hand, even PETA gets it right now and then, even if our own government has declared them terrorists for their nonsensical methods and convictions... (Yes, both the purl=http://digg.com/food_drink/USDA_Classifies_PETA_as_Terrorists]USDA[/url] and the FBI have declared them officially terrorist organizations now, albeit for different reasons, despite their own claims to not support terrorism/violence and to just be modern tree huggers....) Oops, did I just take this thread even further from anything resembling the original topic?

Regarding Iraq: You know, if Anonymous is saying we're being hypocritical by being opposed to funding foreign abortion clinics while not being opposed to killing millions of Iraq civilians (god only know where (s)he got the notion we supported that to begin with), perhaps (s)he should look at it as simply a massively large scale government funded (free to the participants, in fact) foreign post-natal abortion farm called Iraq... then (s)he could be opposed to the foreign abortion farms along with us instead of arguing silly non-issues.

I think the point of small breasted women, is not so much the breast size, it is to do mostly with certain type of teen porn where young women are made to look even younger thus making some kind of legalized pedo porn. I would have to go and look directly at the legislation proposals to confirm this, but i do remember hearing something about this on the radio.

I would support the abolition of sudo kiddy porn, as i feel that has the potential to cause more harm than good, and lets face it, if you want to look at sudo kiddy porn, you have some serious issues to begin with. However restricting porn based on small breasts seems just plain stupid, if that what the actual plan calls for,

I have no idea about the female ejaculation plans or why it would be banned at all. It is a normal part of life for a lot of men and women and natural acts should be embraced by society, not shunned.

@Conner: I think you'd be surprised. Bouncing around articles about the subject seems to indicate Australia's "great firewall" is actually more effective than China's. It may sound like a lot of hoopla over nothing, but the US and UK governments are both watching what's going on as a test to see if they'd get away with the same thing. This really isn't about the porn, even though I suspect the porn is the only reason Anonymous sprang to action. It's about the broader issue of censorship.

@The_Fury: Good luck abolishing porn of any sort. Even the restrictions and laws in place to ban CP haven't been worth a shit. It's out there, and those people who want it know where to find it.

Ultimately, this particular case comes down to what Australians want. If the majority of your countrymen want censorship, they'll get it. Just don't be surprised when it doesn't stop with fringe porn.

Well, we all have censorship to varying degrees in all aspects of our everyday lives, why should the internet be any different. Tv, newsprint, radio, magazines, literary works all have censorship applied to them by editors, censor boards and the like.

I do not see anyone here being up in arms about how sudo kiddy porn is censored from prime time tv, or for that matter that hard core porn is censored off pay tv, or that hard core porn is not available in supermarkets or dvd stores, why should we care all that much if it is censored off the internet also.

I know that a lot of people see the internet as this vast untouchable where anything and everything goes, but that day is going to end sometime as government and law enforcement move to restrict certain activities on the internet and to control illegal activities.

@Samson: You do raise a valid point about it being more about the censorship than the porn issue and that our own government may well be thinking in terms of 'if it works over there, we can do it too', which would be cause for all the Australian hoopla to be worth observation for us, but Fury's also got an equally valid point about the censorship we all take for granted already - more on that in my response to him though.

@The_Fury: I suppose you might be correct about the aims, but I agree that targeting all sites featuring small breasted women seems more than a little overkill. As for the female ejaculation, I would assume that their actual aim is upon those sites which feature oddities of women ejaculating in fountains (spraying rather than dripping, if you will) and such. You do raise a valid point about the censorship in our daily lives receiving a mostly blind eye though, but I think you're taking part of your argument too far. Porn has always been censored from regular television (at least in the US) and that is actually steadily being eroded at by Hollywood at an almost alarming rate. Once upon a time it was totally taboo to even use curse words on television, let alone imply that even a married couple would share a bed, now we get curse words in even kid shows and we're bordering on full frontal nudity for males and females on shows that barely give parental warnings for the kids. As for pay TV, they only don't allow "hardcore" porn and that seems to be limited to anal entry and special oddities like bestiality and child porn from what I've seen, but most of the time you have to subscribe to "adult" channels to even get graphic sex scenes, though HBO and Showtime (etc.) frequently come within a hair of it and late at night even those have shows featuring completely nude porn 'stars' acting as MC. We won't even get into what gets into the theaters these days. The biggest reason the internet has remained as "free" as it has so far is the dispute about who has jurisdiction over what aspects of it. If the planet's collective governments ever either become a single entity or able to collaborate enough to determine who's going to be able to enforce laws over the internet, even the internet will likely become as regulated as television, quite possibly worse. (Incidentally, the availability of hard core porn in grocery stores and dvd stores, as near as I can tell, is a decision made by the management/ownership of the individual store in question based primarily upon what sort of clientèle they prefer rather than any legalities at all, since you mentioned it, at least in this country.)

Censorship of nudity in this country is dictated by the obscenity laws on the books, and the Supreme Court has rules that the guidelines used to define it are legal. Network TV not showing it isn't the same as blanket blocking it from being shown anywhere at all, which is basically what the Aussie government is trying to do.

When we reach the point of the government simply saying "porn is banned" I guarantee you the reaction to that won't be so ho-hum from US citizens because we're not as dumb as we look

I guess the laws are different in the USA, here in Aussie, pay tv can only show R rated soft porn that you can rent from the local video store and its an extra subscription/pay per view type thing, if you want X rated then you have to go to a sex shop to buy or rent it like a regular video.

I guess my point is, nobody objects to censorship being applied to porn in ways to restrict access only to adults in our suburban shops, TV and print media, but for some reason, they object when the same rules are applied to internet based media. I do not see a government applying censorship rules to internet or computer based content as an erosion of my freedoms. The internet grows as such a fast pace that any rules and regulations are going to be years out of date at the time they are introduced, and the technical feasibility of implementing such actions is also highly questionable.

Well unless I'm mistaken here somewhere, doesn't Australia already have legal age restrictions on viewing porn on the internet? I know we do here in the US, you have to be over 18 to legally view it. That's for all types btw. (Why do I get the feeling this discussion should have been its own topic)

The way I'm understanding this Australian censorship action is that they're attempting to make it illegal to view the two types of mentioned porn at all regardless of your age. There's nothing particularly bad about either one compared to some things you can dig up out there.

If they wanted to start somewhere, why not with porn of people screwing animals, porn of people peeing or shitting on each other, or vomit porn? You'd be hard pressed to get anyone who could argue those have any redeeming social value. The gross factor alone would silence all but the most anarchistic internet users.

Link To Legislation



That is the legislation being used here, so it has nothing to do with breast size purse but as i originally suspected that it had everything to do with censorship of sudo child porn. Breast size is just one factor begin used in determining a persons apparent age, as it is the apparent age of the person depicted that is important here, not the legal age. So a 21 year old woman who is being depicted as 14 years of age in a porn film will find that film is refused classification, IE banned from the market place, the government plans to push this further to include internet media as well.

The rest of it, from what i can read in the newspapers and on blogs is that its mostly a beat up by EFFA who see any kind of regulation of the internet as an infraction in their self held belief of having intrinsic rights to do whatever they like on the internet.

The government also held talks with google to get them to censor out information to other illegal activities under Australian law, as they do for China, google refused, which kind of shows their hypocrisy.



Most of those, if not all of them are already refused classification under the current act, and as such will be apart of this internet censorship plan. And i agree with you whole heatedly, those sorts of acts hold no redeeming social value whatsoever at all.

And yes, this does deserve its own thread seems this one has been hijacked by a totally irrelevant topic.

This is what started the uproar, on top of the gov's plan to implement a national internet filter to censor such things that are deemed to be illegal under Australian law.

Sorry for the spam posting, here is an artical from The Age newspaper that outlines what is proposed and in what scope it will cover.

Funny part about that is that I've actually been to barely legal and purely 18 at one time or another in the past and I've never seen anyone there portrayed as under 18. *shrug*

Overall, I'm with you guys on this one, it sounds like they're trying to take existing porn laws and extend them to the internet and someone in the government there offended a group of people by choosing to include certain sites that were not considered offensive to that group.

Either way, it'll be interesting to see the reaction by our government to the idea of a national firewall and the citizen response it provokes in turn...

and, yes, this probably should've been it's own topic already. *shrug*

Yes, now just imagine if I weren't lazy. The functionality this software could have! Moving existing comments to a new post

Anyway, yeah, it looks like the Aussies are really just trying to extend current law to cover the internet. So it's just a case of the law finally catching up to technology. I'm still not sure using the "Great Australian Firewall" is the right way to go about this. If it's illegal, bust people for producing it. Filters tend to be overarching in their coverage and often do end up blocking legit content.

I could not agree more, i am not sure that this is the right approach. Url's change, ip's change, there are a myriad of ways to circumvent the blocking software that companies who peddle in refused classification materials could use to bypass the filters, or like existing kiddy porn, it just gets pushed underground.

Sadly, yes, that's exactly the problem with creating a firewall as your solution, there are just too many ways to get around it and things change, especially for sites that are operating illegally to begin with, so you end up not really stopping what you're trying to block and instead blocking stuff that entirely legitimate folks want to reach for entirely legitimate reasons.

Well.... DUH! That's how moodbites works!

I know I really shouldn't feed into this, but it really depends on whose arse you're kissing. On the other hand, it's definitely not isolated to MudBytes, the whole mud community can be downright vicious at times, just ask someone like Eos if you want confirmation.. In many ways the mud community can be a great resource and lots of fun, but it can also just as easily be very un-community-like too.