Crimson Tide

Tonight, America turns the corner toward the light. Republicans have secured a solid, perhaps bullet proof majority in the US House of Representatives, and they've made commanding gains in the US Senate as well. The wave stopped just short of reaching a majority there, but the split in the Senate is now so close that the Democrats can no longer ignore our presence there. Many solid blue state positions fell our way, including a few important Senate committee seats that will be lost regardless of the outcome.

As of this writing, We hold 233 seats in the House, 218 were required for majority. We hold 46 seats in the Senate, with 3(4?) races left to call. Colorado is leaning Republican, Washington is leaning ever so slightly Republican, and there's a comedy of errors going on in Alaska with "write-in" currently winning. That race will take days, if not weeks to resolve. The only good thing being the Democrat got his ass handed to him. All media outlets instantly called California for Boxer the second the polls closed, but results right now show that Boxer and Fiorina are in a dead heat at 48% each. That hasn't stopped the arrogant liberal from claiming she's won though.

Unfortunately, the idiots in Nevada sent Harry Reid back to the Senate. I suppose there's just some people who, despite the damage their guys do, just can't stand the idea of sending someone else to Washington.

The most important victory of all: Nancy Pelosi is no longer the Speaker of the House. All indications are that the position will be filled by John Boehner. A more honorable man you will not find in the House right now. He's got a long road ahead of him, but at least with the House safely out of Democrat hands, we can start the process of repairing the damage done by Obama and his progressives.

As usual, the people of California continue to boggle the mind. Despite the overwhelming disgust people claim to have with the way the Democrats run things, it seems we've gone off the deep end yet again and Jerry Brown had been elected to his 3rd term as governor. So much for term limits. Also so much for keeping the other even scarier and far more left wing candidate out of the lieutenant governor's office. Gavin Newsom is projected to have won 48% to 41%. So much for any hope of sanity in our executive branch.

As for propositions on the California ballot, the breakdown is as follows with about half of the precincts reporting in:

Proposition - 19 - Legalize Marijuana: Defeated, 55%.
Proposition - 20 - Redistricting (the good one): Passed, 62%
Proposition - 21 - The $18 car tax: Defeated, 58%
Proposition - 22 - No raiding the transportation funds: Passed, 62%
Proposition - 23 - Suspend global warming regulations: Defeated, 59%
Proposition - 24 - Repeal crushing taxes on businesses: Defeated, 59%
Proposition - 25 - Simple majority budget vote: Passed, 54% (The media hasn't called this one yet)
Proposition - 26 - The 2/3 majority on tax hikes: Passed, 53% (Likely nullified by Prop 25 passage)
Proposition - 27 - Eliminate the redistricting commission: Defeated, 60%

So on one side, voters don't want new car tax and don't want the state stealing the transportation funds. However, despite having crippling 15-20% unemployment, the people of this state seem to want to continue to drop the hammer on the very businesses that are equipped to solve that problem. There's also the fact that Prop 25 passed, which is going to make the passage of Prop 26 pointless. One of the pitfalls I warned about in my previous post on California propositions. Even though we appear to have made some gains in the state assembly, it doesn't look like we'll get the majority needed to block the damage that can and will be done through the abuse of Prop 25.

So a sound pounding in the House, a huge wave to balance out the Senate, and a potentially disastrous outcome for California. Politics as usual?

(Pic is of the US House results as of ~12am)
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

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Posted on Nov 3, 2010 2:13 am by Samson in: | 188 comment(s) [Closed]
Well, y'all own it now. Be constructive with it. Not that I hold any great hope.

It is apparently not the night for pot legalization, among other things.

Oddity: current results have Kitzhaber down a few thousand votes in the OR governor's race. Be very bizzare if he lost. OTOH, CT pretty much played as I expected it to, as did the rest of OR.

CA continues to be a strange, strange place.

Unfortunately, as Dwip so succinctly put it, the ball's in the Republican court now, let's see what they can do with it. Repairing damage after the fact is much harder than avoiding it in the first place. So holding hope that this will somehow overnight cure everything is more than a little silly. At least the democrats won't be able to continue damaging things entirely unchecked now, but we have to hope that all the Republicans the nation's just sent to DC will do their jobs for a change.. :rolleyes:

No, looks like even in California pot shall remain illegal for awhile yet. Go figure. :blues:

I quit paying attention to the outcomes of the election a few hours ago, though I suspect I'll check the "final" tallies on the morrow at some point. :crazy:

Yes, California's always been, and likely always will be, a very strange place, especially politically. :lol:

Overall, as Samson said, it's pretty much down to politics as usual. :whistle:

Btw, Samson, it looks like went down awhile ago again. :shrug:

Anonymous [Anon] said:
Comment #3 Nov 3, 2010 6:16 am
I will be blunt here:

Fuck the Republicans. D:

Anonymous [Anon] said:
Comment #4 Nov 3, 2010 6:22 am
Okay, I overeacted in the above post. But I cannot see how anyone could support the Repubs.

Heh, I only just heard of these elections yesterday. That's how much we care up here. Even the (pitiful) World Series garnered much more attention.

Does this mean Arnold's unemployed? He can take all his bodyguards to the pogey line. :smile:

@Dwip: Here's to hoping something constructive gets done indeed. It can't possibly be worse than the last 2 years of absolute garbage.

California never ceases to amaze either.

@Anon: Well, I can't fathom why anyone supports Democrats. They rarely do anything useful and when they gain power, they make a huge mess of things. Happened with Wilson, Hoover, Roosevelt (both), Johnson (Kenedy was an exception), Carter, Clinton, and now Obama. The next two years are going to be interesting to say the least. We'll be back in 2012 to finish cleaning out the Senate and the Whitehouse.

@Hana: These elections you pay so little attention to have a far more lasting impact on your life than the World Series ever will.

...wait, hold up. Hoover and Theodore Roosevelt were Dems? Awesome. We're living in an alternate future! Does this mean the free food and robot slaves are coming soon?

Also, wait. Theodore Roosevelt made a mess of things?

Er. I meant to say progressives, and yes, they all made a huge mess of things.

Now if the Dems were giving out robot slaves, I bet people would have been thrilled to death about that. Sadly, they weren't, and the people feel betrayed by all the false promises.

Not sure I think Hoover was much of a progressive, but yeah, ok, that list makes a whole lot more sense. Although we disagree about everyone but Wilson and Hoover.

Not to derail things further, but what on earth is so objectionable about Theodore Roosevelt?

And I think I'd be a whole lot more disgusted with the Democrats if I hadn't seen this coming from miles away. You incompetent jackasses. Way to do a bunch of things right and then lose control of the god damned message. Gah.

Theodore Roosevelt laid the foundations for the progressive movement in the US 100+ years ago. He may not have himself created a giant mess, but the groundwork provided by his administration opened the door for Wilson to continue on and make a ginormous mess that Harding and Coolidge had to come clean up. Kennedy probably doesn't fit in there either since he was a tax cutter, something progressives NEVER do.

As for your "a bunch of things right" I'm genuinely curious to know just what those things were. From where I sit, the message of "tax the rich, spend like mad" simply didn't resonate.

Edited by Samson on Nov 3, 2010 2:22 pm
Yeah, I dunno. I tend to think Wilson did a fine enough job sending things to hell on his own. OTOH, with Roosevelt you get the Panama Canal, Great White Fleet, business regulation, the Pure Food and Drug Act, national parks, and a seat at the table for unions at a time when unions badly needed a seat at the table. Damn good record there, to my mind.

As to the current set of things, we've been over most of these in one or atother thread, but:

- Both the Bush and Obama stimulus plans were, if not the best they could have possibly been, then at least necessary. I know that one's not particularly popular, but I think it's true and have argued it on at least a couple occasions. I would have tinkered on the margins, but.

- The various health care bills didn't go nearly as far as I personally would have gone, but again, better than what we had. There's clearly a lot more to be done there, but this was a start.

- I'd personally have been more draconian with financial reform, but what we got is more than I expect we would have gotten otherwise.

- Pretty happy with the student financial aid stuff, although not much of it affects me personally.

Doubtless there are various other things I would like if I remembered them, but I think those are the big ones.

There are a couple things I would have preferred got done, like DADT repeal and the elimination of the Bush tax cuts, but what we got wasn't shabby. OTOH, I tend to think that most of that is due to the leadership of Obama, rather than anything inherently good about the congressional Dems. I'm pretty sure I would have been just as happy if Pelosi in particular lost, but hopefully the epic House purge will ultimately do us some good. We'll find out, I'm sure.

Funny thing, the American President with the best record before he entered office was Herbert Hoover. He was known better as 'The Great Humanitarian' at that point in case anyone's wondering. Almost immediately after he stepped into office however, he the economy collapsed, and no matter how much he acted about it, the problem just got worse and worse, so this effectively ruined his career and he was forever thought of afterward as a complete failure.

Anyway...the Dems are gone. I suppose I can be thankful that because the economic legacy Bush has laid on America, there isn't cash for another big stupid war on terror (oil) in the middle east.

Wow, where to begin?

@Anonymous: If you're making offers from hot chicks, well.. otherwise, I can understand supporting Republicans much more easily than supporting Democrats, guess it's a matter of perspective. ;) (No offense, Hana.)

@Hanaisse: Samson's right that these elections certainly carry a longer lasting effect overall than the world series ever will, but even setting that aside, I don't understand how you can be surprised about the elections, they do happen every year on the first Tuesday in November like clockwork.

@Samson: I have to agree with Dwip, I don't see that Teddy Roosevelt did anything so terrible and I'm not so sure Hoover was all that bad either. I will agree that Kennedy really doesn't belong in that list.

@Dwip: Yup, Arnold's back to unemployment, bet we see him in some new movies soon. ;)
I have to confess, I'm rather curious about what it was they did that was so right too. (and I hope healthcare reform isn't one of them because it wasn't done even close to right, even if you feel it needs reform, this wasn't the way.)

Sorry, Dwip & prettyfly, looks like you posted while I was still reading/responding so I didn't see your last posts til now.

@Dwip: I was afraid those were the sorts of things you'd felt they'd done right. I guess, rather than argue the points, I'll just say that we have a significant difference of opinion about these issues.

@prettyfly: I can't honestly say that I've ever thought of Herbert Hoover as a failure. Yes, he failed the economy at an important time, but I'm just not sure it was really his doing and his career otherwise was actually pretty successful.

I think it's silly to say that the war in the middle east is (was) about oil, but there's already been another thread about that here...

@prettyfly - Hoover's a funny dude like that. Did a lot of great stuff after he left office, too. Terrible president. Sort of like Carter, really, in that sense.

Let us say that we disagree fairly radically as regards the economic legacy of Bush and defense spending.

@Conner - Arnold was Hanaisse's thing, but hey, who doesn't want more Arnold movies? As to the elections, she's one of them crazy furriners, dontcha know. Different priorities. Although the elections got front page BBC coverage among other places, so, eh.

[edit] Yeah, I'm not really staking new ground on this Dem record thing. We've all had that fight here before a number of times.

Edited by Dwip on Nov 3, 2010 3:14 pm
Oops, sorry about the misdirected response regarding Arnold. :redface:

I hear you about the rest though. I don't think anyplace in the world doesn't watch our elections each year, particularly on the years that really matter like for a presidential election and the mid-term elections, so I can't really imagine no one up there was watching. On the other hand, I can easily imagine that some folks are more attuned to sports enough that they might've missed all the red and blue maps and ignored the campaign ads and such...

[Edit] Okay, understood and fair enough then.

Edited by Conner on Nov 3, 2010 3:18 pm
Dwip, suffice it to say, all those things you think Obama/Bush did right are exactly why most of us are pissed. All things like that do is incur massive debt. More debt is bad, I don't care who you are or what party you're with. Fortunately, Bush had sense enough to know not to leave us with a massive deficit - 300 billion was manageable. 1.8 trillion and climbing isn't, and ALL of that new debt is on Obama's watch in only 2 years.

You might not have noticed, but your judicial activism corp handed you your DADT repeal. The wrong way one might add, but they did give it to you. With absolutely no say whatsoever from the people on the issue. Congress should have decided that, and they did - by blocking the bill. DADT was simple and logical. I don't care if you're straight or gay, I really don't think anyone needs to know that. Keep it to yourself. The ones who tend to want to brag about it are morale problems, and the military doesn't need that.

It looks very likely you'll get the elimination of the Bush tax cuts. The largest tax INCREASE in American history is about to happen, and Congress need do nothing about it. No vote, no nothing. Just wait for the clock. It's crap like that that makes me wish we'd do away with waiting until the middle of January to seat our new Congress people. Today's technology makes it possible to know who won and where within 2 days time. Seat them immediately. We'll ignore the collosal damage letting those expire is going to do to the economy.

@Conner and Dwip, just on war and oil, I'm only really complaining about Iraq. There was good reason to go into Afghanistan in my opinion, but never any justification to go into Iraq.

@ Samson. Well, I can't really see how America can cope with 1.8 trillion dollars debt without getting rid of those tax cuts. Australia had enough in the piggy bank to spend ourselves out of recession so probably won't get tax increases, but we still lost a shitload of money.

@Samson -

It will come as no great surprise to you that we heavily disagree on most of this. Lots of places I could go here - At least Clinton left us a surplus, a lot of the stimulus paid for itself, a lot of it is unfortunate but necessary, etc, etc, etc. But we've been over all of this before, and I'm disinclined to keep fighting it out.

As far as the judicial repeal of DADT, I'm of two minds. On the one hand, DADT deserves to die. On the other hand, I would much rather for any given issue that it be decided my way via the Congress than the courts, especially one that isn't the Supreme Court. Judicial activism has a long and often beneficial history in this country, but all things considered I don't see it as being the best possible way.

On a budgetary note, and this gets at what prettyfly said as well, I do not see a way out of this that doesn't involve the repeal of the tax cuts (and for that matter, possible tax hikes), coupled with serious looks at entitlement spending and defense spending. Not, mind you, that I'm a fan so much of cutting defense spending as using it more wisely. Everything I read about JSF and Navy shipbuilding makes me see red, and as best I understand, procurement is completely off the rails.

@prettyfly -

As I say, I've had the oil vs other ideals debate on Iraq before, and I'd just as soon link that argument rather than make it again, if only I could find it. Which is to say that I'm mostly replying to you in order to urge our fearless leader here to implement some form of comment search like we've been asking for for ages. :P

Though I will say two things here:

- As best I understand the data, the US is getting jack all by way of oil out of Iraq, got screwed for contracts for same, and most of it is going to, IIRC, Russia and France. If we were actually doing things for the oil, I suspect the war would have gone quite a bit different than it did.

- Given the mindset of George W Bush, I don't particularly have a lot of reason to doubt that he was being quite sincere about the WMDs/evil dictator argument for the second Iraq war. It's more or less what all the key people had been saying for ten years prior, and I think it's reasonably clear that both angles had some evidence to recommend them, and I talk about some of that here if you care.

Which is all, of course, an entirely separate argument from the idea that Bush and Co were necessary operating with good intelligence or entirely rational mindsets when they made the case to take us to war, but I think Bush at least was operating in reasonably good faith.

[edit] On a wholly other note, I forgot to mention that while CA is utterly bugfuck on all sorts of things, that whole redistricting commission thing sounds awesome, and I would really like it to work well. And when it hopefully does, for everyone else to adopt it. Not holding my breath here, but.

Edited by Dwip on Nov 3, 2010 4:57 pm
@Dwip: Yeah, I'm not terribly inclined to restart the debate on Nationalization, debt, failed stimulus programs, and all that other crap that clearly hasn't worked in the last two years either.

That said, raising taxes in the middle of a devastating recession is absolutely ludicrous. I'd really like to see the Bush cuts kept in place, as they are now, so that businesses and corporations who are holding on to their money won't be inclined to keep doing so. They need to start investing in order for the economy to recover. Punishing them with a tax hike will only cause them to hoarde more, and the magical recovery fairies will leave.

We do agree though that massive spending cuts need to happen. I suspect we also agree that Boehner and his new House need to hold the line on any more attempts to raise the debt ceiling. As I said, more debt = Bad Things(tm).

@Prettyfly: The whole war for oil argument is, was, and always will be entirely laughable. A war for resources generally means you go there to steal them - which we have absolutely not done since Iraq is selling it on the open market.

Also, in general, yes. California is schizoid or something. I am hopeful that the newly empowered Redistricting Commission can do something about the snake-like districts we have laid out here. Solving that goes a long way to properly representing ALL of California and not just SF and LA.

Seeing that the Reps have a platform of less government and lower taxes, at what point on this slipery slide will this no longer be the case. 0 taxes, 0 government? Or it is platform just a bunch of spin to woo the voters, a bit like McCain who has every year he has been in office given a speech where he calls Washinton broken and says reform is needed, but nothing ever gets changed because it would mean they are off the gravey train.

Aside from this, the Dems got what was comming, you just cannot give people the hope of change then change absolutly nothing of substance. At least the Reps offer more of the same, something which they can deliver on in principle.

For me, i am kind of sad that the Dems and our Labour have failed so badly by delivering nothing on the core elements of their platforms. When i hear Obama backflip saying how ABC cannot happen because of XYZ i wanna punch him in the face. kind of funny how thr Reps painted Obama as the messahia and now most Dems see him as judas.

Edited by The_Fury on Nov 3, 2010 6:26 pm
Looking to McCain for answers is a bit off the mark. Though he carries the (R) behind his name, he is no conservative. He's what we call a RiNO - Republican in Name Only. For anyone who thought Bush was bad, McCain would have been worse since he panders to the supposed moderates. When you find them, show them to me, I can't seem to find them.

Washington is broken. The last two years are just what it took for the country to once more awaken from its long slumber and do something about it. 1994 might not seem like that long ago, but that's basically what happened here. 1994 is also the only reason Clinton claims credit for a surplus - he doesn't write the budget. Congress does. Who owned Congress? The Republicans. I rest my case.

Oh you sneaky back-editor you! We never painted him as a messiah. That was the left's own doing. They practically worshiped at his feet. We've all along said the guy is a Marxist, and nothing has changed there.

Edited by Samson on Nov 3, 2010 6:28 pm
For those of you who seem to think so highly of the Democrats, I offer you a bit of insight delivered directly from one who served during our civil war and was a close personal friend of Abraham Lincoln: The words of Mr. Grigsby... :P

Edited by Conner on Nov 3, 2010 7:01 pm
Anonymous [Anon] said:
Comment #24 Nov 3, 2010 9:58 pm
Obama passed Healthcare, is cutting Nuclear arms and closing Guantanomo Bay.
Not to mention putting more troops in Iraq.

The Democrats never get anything done?

The people don't support Obamacare, they don't want the nuclear arms treaty, and very few of us wanted Guantanomo Bay closed.

As for Iraq, you're smoking something if you think he increased the troop deployments. He's been pulling guys out of there left and right despite the job not actually being done yet.

So yeah, he did stuff, but none of what he did was what the country wanted. Hence, the beatdown he got in Congress yesterday. Which will continue in 2012 with him losing his reelection bid and with the Senate purge being completed.

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