Dear Mr. Obama

I don't know who this guy is, but he said in less than two minutes exactly what I know most of us truly believe about the Iraq War. I'd like to thank this man for his service and for standing up to say his piece before the people!


.........................
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

       
« Constitutional Crisis
Site Updates: November 2008 »

Posted on Oct 31, 2008 12:08 am by Samson in: | 29 comment(s) [Closed]
Comments
Nice find, Samson.

       
StifflersMOM said:
Comment #2 Nov 1, 2008 4:30 am
The Republicans paid him and his family $200,000 to perform it.

       
And I'm sure you've got the ironclad proof ready and waiting to present to us? Don't keep us waiting on pins and needles for too long! The election is only a few days away!

Oh, and in case it wasn't quite clear, there's only one person in the video. You would of course have known that had you bothered to view it. Nice try though.

       
Perhaps he meant that this man's family member was the one holding the camera and cue cards.. thoughhow that'd even be remotely relevant is beyond me, though I'm sure that he is right about one thing, that sort of honest tetimony is probably easily worth over $200k to the Republicans. *L*

       
StifflersMOM said:
Comment #5 Nov 1, 2008 4:25 pm
What i am alluding to, is the fact that this is on You Tube and its hardly a fair and honest medium that is not open to exploit by all parties. It is not out of the question that the Republicans have paid for this, I am sure that if i went and looked myself i could find some Obama sponsored clips on there as well.

The real point here, is that intelligent people use credible sources of information when finding information to support their position. Sites like you tube and others cited in some of the debate here are hardly credible, only the narrow minded and uneducated would accept with bind faith that any of these sites are anything other than political stunts.

       
What difference does it make whether a stated position by one individual was a political stunt or otherwise, Ms. Obama? If people here or elsewhere find it expresses their own opinions well, it's served it's purpose exquisitely, regardless of who may or may not have produced it. The fact is that, as a veteran who served during time of war in the Middle East under Mr. Bush as the Commander-in-Chief, albeit the more senior Mr. Bush in my own case, I can readily say that I fully endorse the statements issued in the youtube video that Samson found and linked here for us. What have you done for your country lately?

       
Ms. Obama,

Nobody here said Youtube was beyond reproach. I posted the clip because the guy laid out valid reasons to vote for McCain, and as the son of a retired US Air Force officer, I happen to agree with him. It wouldn't make any difference to me if McCain himself had walked out from behind the camera and handed the guy a wheelbarrow full of $100 bills.

The bigger point here is that you made an unsubstantiated claim about who paid for the clip. You've yet to provide said proof, and are indeed now backpedaling after figuring out that we're not going to just accept your unfounded claim at face value.

You've also now resorted to the typical left wing nutjob tactic of being insulting and condescending. However unlike many weakling people you're apparently used to dealing with, I'm perfectly capable of returning the favor if that's how you want to roll.

Oh, and I suppose you'll now be reminding everyone who just spent $20 million on a 30 minute prime-time infomercial slot that aired on 3 major TV networks. Because I'm sure you're aware that CBS, NBC, and Fox ( not the Fox News channel ) are completely unbiased and absolutely rock solid credible.

       
Gotta love how liberals not only know the man was paid to do it-- (Because nobody could really believe differently legitimately.)
But they know the exact amount. Supposedly 200,000 dollars.

Sounds like how liberals always know when they lose an election they were cheated. (Because nobody could really believe differently legitimately.)


Oh, and I love how when you called this poster out they came back with 'It can't be true, it ended up on youtube.'

What a rock solid argument.

       
StifflersMOM said:
Comment #9 Nov 2, 2008 3:13 pm
You people are way too serious. Being payed 200K was a flippant remark and humor attempt. However as has been said latter, it is most likely a party sponsored video. Bringing the boys home from Iraq is one of the most sensible things anyone can do and wanting to stay there for 100 years is just plain lunacy. The sooner the world wakes up to itself and stops messing with affairs in the middle east the sooner we might have peace.

       
Of course, one wonders where this whole 100 years thing came from. Even if it was actually said, I wonder why nobody seems to be objecting to our continued presence in both Europe and South Korea after more than half of that time frame, yet somehow the thought of spending another minute in Iraq is just absolutely revolting. Or even better, why nobody seems to be objecting to our still being in Bosnia after 10 years when we went there without even having UN permission. Interesting, no?

I also find it highly amusing when liberals get called out, can't counter the argument, and one of two things then happens:

1. You're a racist! <-- All too familiar battlecry to stop a debate.
2. It was a joke! You people are taking this too seriously! <-- What you just did.

       
Anonymous [Anon] said:
Comment #11 Nov 2, 2008 5:41 pm
What you cannot accept that it was a light hearted attack at what is obviously republican propaganda. The guy is not speaking his own words, he is however reading from cue cards, his eyes scan left to right over and over as he reads.

The things that make this war a mistake are obvious to anyone. The reasons we went there were all based on lies, Sadam had no weapons of mass anything and was a threat to no one, a flock of penguins could have taken Sadam down.

There is only one way to stop terrorism, and that's to stop fueling them, which is what is constantly happening when we bomb innocent civilians, you turn people against you and give them a reason to hate you. The reason why the Taliban is able to continue to recruit is because we bomb the Pakistan tribal areas, you have over 1 million people there with guns, bombing them makes them friends with our enemy, you want to end the Taliban and you need to befriend those 1 million gun wielding Pakistanis and let them deal with the Taliban because without people who hate the US the Taliban is nothing and will cease to exist. All wars on ideology are exactly the same. You do not win by fighting, you win by not giving them ammunition and in this case the ammunition is civilian deaths and the disrespect of borders.

The war in Iraq is the same. We have bombed their country into dust and we expect that they will open their arms and love us as their saviors. Arabs are no different to us as the guy in the movie says, you bomb them and treat them like shit and they will try and kill us. Which is exactly what is happening, we have given a lot of people numerous reasons to hate us, so can we expect anything more from them. If my mother, sister, cousin, aunt, grandmother or any other innocent family member was killed by a stray bullet, bomb or other stuff up as the US military has made, i too would take up arms to kill those soldiers on the side that caused it. Lets face it, we get rather upset over the deaths of a few thousand, that is nothing compared to the 100's of thousands Iraqi civilians who have died because of our actions.

I would expect that you would do the exact same things if it was your family who was being killed. Every civilian death caused by a US soldier is just more fuel on a fire we cannot put out and the sooner we accept that the better.

       
Anonymous [Anon] said:
Comment #12 Nov 2, 2008 5:44 pm
Are we able to register to post comment? currently there is no link to do so.

       
http://www.opinionjournal.com/extra/?id=110007540
http://www.theatlantic.com/doc/200401/pollack

A little enlightening reading for yet another post claiming the war was based on lies, people died because of it, blah blah blah. Here's your challenge: Read both links I've presented to you, then come back here and honestly tell me "Bush lied, people died".

You're also dead wrong on your civilian casualty count. Might I suggest you avoid repeating Rosie O'Donnel's lies?

You might also want to go ask David Petraeus how we're doing in Iraq. I'm sure he'll give you some news you didn't expect. It's commonly referred to as victory. We certainly aren't hanging by a thread, Malaki's government certainly doesn't hate us, and the Iraqi civilians are happy to have us around. It's only the radical morons like Al Sadr who want us gone.

And the registration module isn't done yet. Patience. If you'd like to get in ahead of that happening, use the contact form to send me a username and email address and I can pre-register you.

       
It's only the radical morons like Al Sadr who want us gone.


Its radical idiots like Al Sadr who are able to motivate and mobilize people do blow themselves up on a US soldier. Its images of women and kids being killed in a US bombing attack that give them the ammunition to do just that.

and the Iraqi civilians are happy to have us around.


If you seriously beleive that you need to take your head out your ass and go ask the 10's of thousand people who marched in protest of the US presents in Iraq, who were carrying placards of Al Sadr. Put guns in the hands of those people and we have more than just trouble on our hands. "I am with every Sunni, Shiite or Christian who is opposed to the agreement ... and I reject, condemn and renounce the presence of occupying forces and bases on our beloved land," al-Sadr said" Al Sadr will cross the divide and unite Sunni Shiite and Christan against the continued US presence. I know i have said this a lot of time, you don't beat ideology with guns, you beat it with words and actions of peace.

You're also dead wrong on your civilian casualty count.


Again you sure, http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ which only counts media reported deaths is close to 100K civilian deaths since 2003. Other studies have the the figure closer to 600K. Burnham et al say in their report "An excess mortality of nearly 100 000 deaths was reported in Iraq for the period March, 2003–September, 2004, attributed to the invasion of Iraq." Another report i looked into put the estimate at an averate of 117 civilian deaths per day attributed to the war. Either way, thats a lot of son's, cousin's, uncle's, brother's etc who have a very valid reason to be pissed off with the USA and would like to take revenge in the name of justice.

It's commonly referred to as victory.


Against whom? Who exactly are we fighting. Insurgents? What a lovely word to describe an enemy we cannot see, one without a face and one without an army. You can never win against Ideology, its faceless and will be there to bite you on the ass when you least expect it. You will never win a war of ideology with guns and my making people hate you. When you have nothing else to live for, you strap tnt around your body and go blow up GI Joe and anyone else who just so happens to be there. History has shown us that you can never win this type of war, it will only ever cause us more pain. The only way to win a fight agaisnt ideology is with words and actions and by befriending people.

You think the Iraqis like us, we invade there country, bomb the shit out of it, kick down the doors to every house and terrorize the woman and children who are cowering there in fear. Tell me how happy would would be to have someone come into your house in the burbs, bomb the crap out of your garden, you car and boar, kill your family members and dog, then kick the front door down and interogate you about Insurgents. I bet you would welcome them with open arms. NOT.

       
Brief commentary:

- As to the video, while I happen to disagree with him on the subject, and while I think he's mischaracterized Obama's views a bit, it's well enough said, and regardless of at who's behalf he made the thing, it was made well, and in any event reflects the views of a lot of folks in the US military. End of story, as far as I'm concerned.

As far as this Iraq business, Anonymous here seems to be completely unaware that the US campaign in Iraq is multifaceted, multistaged, and evolving. Without spending a lot of time noting how combat operations in Iraq now bear comparatively little resemblance to 2003-2004 - which featured the heavy, large scale combat of the invasion itself, plus later battles like Fallujah - I will note that there exists, on a several levels, a campaign of US diplomacy and civil support that has done us a whole lot of good. US troops have built schools, trained Iraqi security forces, provided food and medical care, and what have you. Evidence suggests that, at the very least, we are seen as a beneficial stabilizing force for the moment, if we aren't exactly loved.

OTOH, we are perhaps not at the level we're at in Afghanistan, where by all accounts US troops are actually more trusted than a fair number of Afghan institutions.

I'll leave the nuanced history for another time - suffice it to say that the thing is a lot deeper than you're giving it credit for.

       
Its radical idiots like Al Sadr who are able to motivate and mobilize people do blow themselves up on a US soldier. Its images of women and kids being killed in a US bombing attack that give them the ammunition to do just that.


It's also a liberal press here in the US either faking such things or reporting on bogus information they didn't bother to check that fuels such things. It's also radical idiots like Al Sadr himself who stick women and children in situations where they can and have been killed by bombing raids. Some of them perpetrated by Al Sadr himself. I'm sure you're aware of this and just forgot to mention it. You are familiar with the concept of human shields, right? Saddam Hussein was famous for it.

If you seriously beleive that you need to take your head out your ass and go ask the 10's of thousand people who marched in protest of the US presents in Iraq, who were carrying placards of Al Sadr.


I do seriously believe it because I take the word of soldiers in the field over the world of a biased MSNBC media source with their manipulated camera angles and ignorant reporting of material facts and sometimes outright lies. There will always be protests. I never said all of the civilians are happy to see us. Much like not all of the civilians here at home support the war. When you say 10's of thousands, you need to be prepared to back that up, because it's more likely to be a few hundred to a couple thousand at most. 10's of thousands would not have gone unnoticed.

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/ - 88-100K I can believe. You started off though by claiming it was 100's of thousands, which is the crap spewed forth by Rosie O'Donnel and boneheads like her. You also need to keep something in mind. In all wars, there will be civilian casualties. The US armed forces are always as careful as they can be about conducting combat operations where civilians are present. Saddam wasn't anywhere near as careful as he's got millions of bodies on his hands. Saddam was more like Hitler, who went out of his way to deliberately slaughter civilians. There's also the small matter of many of the civilian casualties in Iraq being the responsibility of the bombers you just got done telling me are killing US soldiers with reckless abandon.

Tell me how happy would would be to have someone come into your house in the burbs, bomb the crap out of your garden, you car and boar, kill your family members and dog, then kick the front door down and interogate you about Insurgents.


I would be most upset if such a thing were to happen. The difference is, here in the US, I can shoot back and kill the attackers. It's a little thing called the 2nd Amendment which Saddam didn't have. I would also be most upset to hear liberals like you leveling false accusations against my fellow soldiers. We are not conducting terror operations and indiscriminately killing civilians or blowing up their houses for no reason.

Now, I'm going to direct your attention back to the two links I posted previously, and ask you once more to give me an answer about them. Of course, if you're not the same person, then why don't you go have a read yourself. [While I do something about not being able to tell which Anonymous is which]

       
Is everything with you Oh the liberal lied, the lefties this. I think you need to get yourself a foil hat for the mind rays too because of the paranoia you have that there is some secret leftist agenda to deceive the nation.

The 100K dead on the body count site is the MOST CONSERVATIVE estimate based on deaths reported in foreign media and NOT ALL deaths are reported in the media you know, most go under the radar as they mean nothing to western media interests. They are CIVILIANS not soldiers. Other studies conducted have put the figure closer to 600K. One study says there were 100K in the first year of the war. So no matter how you look at it, a lot of INNOCENT people have been killed.

And then you have secondary death causes, because we bombed such critical military installations like sewage treatment plants, water treatment plants and pumping stations, hospitals, power generation facilities, food storage and manufacture facilities, so MANY people have died from preventable illness and lack of access to medical care.

And finally 1/2 the country glows in the dark like Chernobyl because of all of the DEPLETED URANIUM munitions that have been exploded over the country, and people have been getting cancers and dieing because of that too, which will continue to happed now and into the future, what a gift to leave the people of Iraq. Oh look the USA saved us from Saddam and left us with an even greater evil monster that will kill our people for the next 100 years.

And for the record i do not watch ANY US based media programs, as anyone who has spent a lot of time abroad will attest to, US media is biased like you say, BUT ITS both left and right, you just choose to accept the version that suits your Ideology.

       
Samson:
Nice soution to the anonymous issue, but how come some show up now as just "said:"?

Ms. Obama/Stifler's MoM:
What's with the obsession with "a foil hat to block the mind rays"? Do you wear one that frequently?

And you do realize that it's the civilian causualties that are of greater interest to the media than the military ones since those are the ones they can exploit to sell their media mediums... As for the exact numbers, I think we've already beaten this to death, everyone seems to be agreeing here that since 2003 there have been ~100k (or so) deaths, the part that's in disagreement seems to be who killed them and when and so forth. Will your petty bickering and labeling actually bring even one of them back? If not, what good is it serving at this point? Or do you honestly believe that the war will end and the U.S. will simply surrender to terrorists because you've made a few republicans on a fairly small but rather active single blog site somehow agree to the absrd notion that we're guilty of being in the wrong by supporting our brothers in arms during time of active war as declared by a democratic congress?

Chernobyl glows in the dark? :lol:
Personally, if I had my way, believe you me, no one over there would have cause to ever worry about such things, the entire region would have been turned into a single solid sheet of glass a few years ago.. Just think of all the lives of international soldiers we could have saved that way. ;)

If you don't watch any U.S. based media at all, what do you watch? BBC's comedy channel? News in France?

       
If you're not watching any US media sources, you are by default not qualified to comment about how biased one side is over the other. This is why it's important to know where you hail from, a question you still have yet to answer, along with those two links I gave you for light reading. Still no comment on them I see. So I guess for now I at least am done with you since you refuse to engage the questions before you and are instead resorting to typical liberal debate tactics of shifting the topic to something else. All I can say is your complete lack of understanding of our entire country is evident, and the fact that you're probably getting your news from Al Jazera isn't lending you any credibility whatsoever.

       
What's with the obsession with "a foil hat to block the mind rays"? Do you wear one that frequently?


Well with Mr Samson, if that is your real name (sic Linal Hutts The Simpsons) seems to think that everything that disagrees with his world view is somehow a conspiracy and lie. It would seem to the casual outsider that Mr Samson is either an Ideologue or a crackpot.

Not one time has Mr Samson agreed that there is merit in any issue i have raised and his response to anything that challenges his position is its all Leftist lies, Liberal adgenda, Rosie ODonald this and that. Cult leaders do these very things all the time, only they are right, their world view is right and anyone who disagrees with their position is a heretic.

everyone seems to be agreeing here that since 2003 there have been ~100k (or so) deaths,


http://fpc.state.gov/documents/organization/92944.pdf The Iraqi health ministers figures 2003 to Nov 2006 was 150,000 civilian deaths caused by coalition forces.

"As Measuring Stability and Security in Iraq notes, “Not all civilian casualties are observed by or reported to Coalition forces; as a result, these data only provide a partial picture of the violence experienced by Iraqis.”"

"On April 25, 2007, however, the Iraqi government announced its intention to cease providing civilian casualty figures to the United Nations.3 Ivana Vuco, a UN human rights officer, stated, “[Iraqi] government officials had made clear during discussions that they believed releasing high casualty numbers would make it more difficult to quell unrest."

So you have a situation where not all deaths are reported, where even the Iraq governments own figures are 50% higher than what you state is fact, and the government no longer provides civilian death counts because it makes them look bad. The option here is either to accept that a lot more civilians have died than the most conservative estimate of 100K or keep your head buried in the sand and believe that the fairies are coming to dinner and all as a ok.

Personally, if I had my way, believe you me, no one over there would have cause to ever worry about such things, the entire region would have been turned into a single solid sheet of glass a few years ago.. Just think of all the lives of international soldiers we could have saved that way. ;)


Just don't hold it against some Arab who then wants to eat your children for dinner or when he drives a plane into a public building then because of their own ignorance and wanting to rid the world of Americans, or when the Palestinians want to kill Jews because of ignorance.

       
If you're not watching any US media sources, you are by default not qualified to comment about how biased one side is over the other. This is why it's important to know where you hail from, a question you still have yet to answer


How so? We are talking about world affairs, it would seem that as long as your from earth and keep up todate with current affairs than your more than suitably qualified to discuss the topic. And if you ever live outside of the US for more than 30 seconds you will notice that there is a whole world out there that is NOT US centric. That there are a lot of other media organizations that also report the same stories. If you have not noticed the war in Iraq is world news.

I am from South Jordan, Salt Lake City, Utah. But have been overseas working for the past 6 years, mostly in Europe. But this in itself is hardly important. Other than that being overseas has opened my eyes to how narrow minded i used to be and now i see the world in a very different light. I see how US foreign politics effects other peoples, i get media that does not have a US centric spin on it and so much more.

       
... or when he drives a plane into a public building ...


"The chickens have come home to roost." Anyone?

I think the point is there would be no arabs left, but I digress. This is a case of talking in circles.
For liberals the argument always seems to come back to, "That's why we deserved 9/11."
And for that matter, "when the Palestinians want to kill Jews."

Because everyone knows the Jews are a tool of the American imperialists. Or maybe vice versa?

In any event, it seems your views are in line with that of Barack Hussein Obama.


       
I think the point is there would be no arabs left, but I digress.


No the point is the blatant racism being offered by some, which is most likely the only reason they will not vote for Obama, he is a black man with an Arab sounding name and that scares the shit out of white hill billy americans, but rather than be upfront with their racist ideals like Mr Conner is, they hide behind fancy talking and half arsed policy talk.

       

... blatant racism [ ] is most likely the only reason they will not vote for Obama ...

... white hill billy americans [] hide behind fancy talking and half arsed policy talk.


Yes. Us conservatives are all hillbilly americans.
Yes. Us hillbillies all hide behind "fancy talking" and policy talk.
Yes. If you don't vote for Obama the only legitimate reason could possible be that you are a racist.

I guess that's why perhaps "it's not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to guns or religion or antipathy to people who aren't like them or anti-immigrant sentiment or anti-trade sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations." -- Barack Obama

Remember. Legitimate debate over issues has long been dead.
If you don't agree with Obama then you, sir, are worse than Hitler.

       
Obama is about change and about hope, change in itself is what scares republicans more than anything. They are scared of science, of individual freedoms, of migrants, of free trade and the removal of tariffs, or a world view where america is not right nor the best at everything.

       
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