Fascism in Kalifornia

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522637,00.html - Read that.

Now tell me something. Since when does the city, county, state, or federal government have any right to dictate how you use your own property? Especially when all you're doing is inviting some people over for Bible study? This has to be about the most clear cut and concrete example of fascism and liberalism being one in the same. Stop and think about this for a second. How many people do you know of who hold large parties in their homes and serve alcohol to their guests? What about all those sex swinger places you hear about all the time where people are invited over to someone's home and have some big sex orgy inside? You never hear about the authorities showing up at their doors claiming it to be "unlawful use of land".


Running a bar without a liquor license is illegal. So all you people who are holding the next big kegger party at Dave's house are on notice that you're making "unlawful use of land" and will be shut down. If you don't agree with this, too fucking bad. It's the law and you just have to get used to it bud. Think this is completely stupid logic?

Running a brothel is illegal in all but two counties of the state of Nevada, and even there you need licenses and all sorts of other legal stuff before you can go anywhere near doing that. Running one out of your own home? Sorry pal, you're going to jail for prostitution/pimping/pandering. Think this isn't the same thing?

Now consider:

Inviting friends over for a chat about the Bible constitutes running a church and therefore amounts to an illegal assembly without a permit. If it sounds completely stupid, it is, because it's your house and unless you're conducting this service out on the front lawn in full view of the public, there's absolutely no basis for making such a ridiculous claim.

The only reason the county is pushing this at all is because it's part of the much wider liberal agenda to eradicate all forms of religion from society. Apparently even in the privacy of one's home. Not only would the founding fathers be utterly disgusted by this, they'd be arming themselves for open revolution against the tyranny of the government. In fact, they did, back in 1776. This sort of thing was one of the reasons this country exists at all, because mother England was imposing bullshit like this on people. The proof is everywhere, the longer we ignore it, the more rights we'll have taken away from us. Some day soon you may wake up in shackles for daring to speak the name of any deity in public.
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

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Posted on May 28, 2009 5:21 pm by Samson in: | 19 comment(s) [Closed]
More power to them for that federal lawsuit against San Diego County. While I can't say that I would support "bible study", I can say that I certainly support the constitution, including the bill of rights, as written by our nation's founding fathers and this sounds like as bold an infringement of the first amendment as it could be. I suppose the county would argue that they're not stopping them from fredom of religion nor assembly but trying to enforce zoning permit regulations, but even if they choose to incororate a full scale church within their home that would still be outside the purvew of zoning since it's covered by the first amendment as I see it. Does this also mean that, if I lived in San Diego county, I'd need a zoning permit in order to teach my children hebrew or to celebrate passover by hosting a sedar. In my opinion, their lawyer should be seeking that lawsuit regardless of whether the county persists in their current efforts simply on the basis that they made the efforts in the first place. Our national government has outgrown it's britches and needs desperately to be reduced to what it should be, but even local governments need to be reminded from time to time that they can't make laws that contradic the people's rights either.

Btw, if you really want something to get worked up about, check this one out: [inews] FoxNews@MegaBot: Texan Woman Told to Remove 'Offensive' U.S. Flag (http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,522659,00.html)

Yes, I saw the one about the flag too, but the difference there is that her company has asinine policies and the "offense" took place on private property. And although it is indeed something to get worked up about, it doesn't come anywhere close to a fascist intrusion on the private home by an actual government agent sent there to abuse power the Bill of Rights expressly forbids them from having.

I'll conceed that point, Samson. It's not even close to an actual government agent sent to a private home to abuse power the Bill of Rights expressly forbids that agency from having in the first place. I'd heard about the flag thing yesterday on the radio news here (I live in Texas now, only about an hour or so from Arlington & Mansfield in fact, so it was local news) and didn't have a better way to bring it to your attention.

A few ponderances.

1. If you read the local news on the thing, the county's story is that their sole concern is enforcement of a local parking thing. You get ~10 people, and after that you apparently go into ridiculous zoning land.

Which has a point, of sorts. They had 15 people there, which even if you assume ~2 people per car, is somewhere from 7-15 cars, which is a lot for a residential street to absorb, especially on a weekly basis.

2. That said, considering the First Amendment, it's a pretty damn weak point.

3. And indeed, this all too common free->multiple thousands of dollars to do anything many localities seem to have is insanity and probably ought to be reined in.

4. All of that said, we don't really have the county's side to all of this. Not saying it would be a particularly persuasive or even reasonable side, considering the scale all of this operates on, but they do deserve their say.

Does look pretty bad on the face of it, though.

Ok Dwip, let's take your points into account:
1. I can sort of understand the parking issue, but the county should've addressed this as a parking issue then rather than telling them they were misusing their land by hosting a religious assembly. Even for a parking problem, that really should've been a matter of ticketing the individual drivers rather than trying to get the household to get a special use permit.

2. How is the First Amendment a weak point? In this country it's usually one of the strongest points available.

3. Agreed.

4. They've equal opportunity to address the media and even this blg if they choose to, in fact, in some ways it's much easier for them to do so than a regular citizen. But given the lack of their side of the story, the facts that we have so far seem pretty damning on the county's side.

1. This, yes.

2. No, I mean the First Amendment is a very strong point, which makes the county's parking argument pretty damn weak.

4. It could also be the media just picking the one side and leaping on it. It's kind of strange that nowhere was there even so much as a "county officials could not be reached for comment" or what have you line, which I find suspicious. Is the county being whack? Is the reporting shoddy? Dunno.

2. Ah, now I understand.

4. Couldn't be just shoddy reporting, or the media being biased, that wouldn't happen in this country.. </sarcasim> Either way, we can only go off of what we know even when we know the facts as presented may very well not be the whole truth and nothing but the truth, otherwise we might as forget wasting our time discussing any topic that we've only got the media reports to go off of.

Contrary to what the liars on the left say, Fox News is not in the business of filing false reports. I'm more inclined to believe the story coming from them than I would be if, for example, the LA Times printed a story saying that the border fence was finally done and only talked to people who backed up their claim.

So Fox didn't mention talking to a county official. Do they really need to say "The county could not be reached for comment" when it's pretty obvious to anyone paying attention that the county won't comment on it because it's already an asinine position to take? I guarantee you they're already looking at this and wondering WTF they were thinking.

The even more disturbing thing here though, which isn't being reported at all. The county isn't just going to randomly show up at your house to make you stop doing something. Some asshole in the neighborhood had to have called and filed a complaint about it. Which goes to show that the populace is becoming the informants for the Gestapo. Anyone remember when this kind of shit started happening before? Anyone remember what the ultimate result was?

Well, I certainly remember from my history lessons, but I can't honestly say that I have first hand memories of that sort of thing on a national scale. What you're describing sadly enough not only resembles Gestapo policies from Germany but also McCarthism from our own nation, and this aspect probably shouldn't really surprise you given the sort of news we've been reading/hearing about for the last few years. It's kind of like everyone being shocked that the National Government is bailing out banks and the auto industry and.. the National Government established Amtrak through that same method just shy of a century ago, they even bailed out New York City itself once upon a time. Likewise, throughout history people have always been eager to turn on their neighbors, it's even described in several places in the bible, which, regardless of whether you see that book as holy scripture or a best selling fictional work, is one of the oldest books of human psychological history that exists.

http://www.myfoxhouston.com/dpp/news/national/dpgo_HOA_Asks_Vet_to_Remove_Bumper_fc_20090528_2518563 - Not in California but certainly another lovely example of fascism in action. Homeowners associations are evil to the core.

In this case, it sounds like either it's the actions of one over-zealous idiot or that, right after the letter was sent the HOA realized what a stupid thing they'd done (not to mention, hypicritical given some of those sited political bumper stickers are probably on their own cars) and are now doing what they can to back-pedal out of it. But I agree that HOAs are rotten to the core and I've made it clear to every realtor I've ever dealt with that I will not buy a property under any circumstances if it will be under the jurisdiction of a HOA of any sort.

Implying an HOA has a "jurisdiction" only gives them power they don't even legally have.

Case in point:

When our family still lived on the SW side of the city, my dad was into CB/Ham radio. Over the course of his hobby, he amassed some pretty cool stuff. The coolest of which was a 60-something foot antenna he mounted to the roof which enabled him to talk to anyone anywhere in the world, when combined with the awesome might of his 4000 watt amplifier. Sure enough, buried somewhere deep within the HOA bylaws or whatever they're called was a provision stating that you couldn't mount things on your roof that rose more than 50 feet above its apex. The HOA sent letters demanding it be taken down. We ignored them. They got more aggressive and sent a stooge over to bully my dad. They failed - he used city ordinance against them, which stated that no structure mounted to the roof of a house may exceed 75 feet. They threatened to haul him into court for refusing to obey. When he informed them they'd lose the case due to it being privately owned property they called the bluff. Sure enough, judge tossed the case and made them pay the legal bills.

So all it takes is for someone with enough balls to stand up to these people. I say good for the Marine in Dallas who stood against the HOA and brought it to the attention of the press. I guarantee you they'd lose the case in court if the vehicle were towed, and if it were me I'd file charges for grand theft against them for stealing the car out of my own driveway. That otta get their attention, and that's likely why they're backpedaling now so they won't have to foot the bill for it all later.

You're probably right, but I still would rather save myself the hassle to begin with by just not buying property anywhere that's covered by a HOA, which is easy enough to do since it's required in every state that if a property is within a HOA it has to be disclosed in the real estate listing.

Well if it's required here that's not very well known, because I rarely see listings out here that disclose that. I haven't seen an HOA anywhere yet that's actually good for the homeowners it's supposed to help.

You'd have to check towards the bottom of the MLS listing, most places list it with the other checkbox stuff but some leave it to the comments section. Either way, you'll get no arguments from me about how useful it is to be a homeowner member of a HOA, the only "perk" I know about them is that you usually have someone else paid to deal with your roads (even if it's just the city/county) and you generally have a uniform appearance in your neighborhood because of it, but you also get to pay a monthly/annual fee for the privilege of living under your neighbor's rules in effect.

Check it out! Snopes picked up this story and posted about it yesterday. And, Guess what, Dwip, we've even got the county's side of it there as well. Enjoy the quick read at http://www.snopes.com/politics/religion/biblestudy.asp.

So they're sticking with the parking thing. Yeah, see the concern there, but fail. At the very least they backpedaled pretty hard, which is good.

As to the whole HOA thing, I think it says something that I, somebody who's never even been close to home ownership, is deeply wary of the things. I've heard enough horror stories.

Agreed on all counts, Dwip. At least they did have the sense to backpedal hard on it once it hit the media and people started calling to inquire about it. And, yup, on the HOA thing, that does say something indeed, though not anything anyone should be surprised to hear.

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