Hope For America

It brings comfort to me knowing there are still kids out there who are being brought up right. I know this particular video is dealing with gay marriage, and it's a subject I feel strongly about, but the point here is that, yes, there ARE still young conservatives. The left hasn't driven them fully from the world. I hope such a thing never comes to pass, because if it does, there won't be an America left to have this debate in.

Also, no, I'm not looking to engage a debate about the issue of gay marriage either. It just happens to be what brought this girl into the limelight. Her explanation of it is more or less where I stand on it and she's explained it far better than I ever could.


(Yes, this post is mainly to answer the sound of crickets heard elsewhere.....)
.........................
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

       
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Posted on May 23, 2012 2:31 pm by Samson in: | 99 comment(s) [Closed]
Comments
:blink:

       
Well that's more than I figured you'd say about it :P

Also May is looking pretty dead, isn't it? I should write up a couple more posts for the two movies I saw this month.

       
I could say a lot more about it, obvious, given the part where I wrote my own post on the subject, but I don't think we really want to get into my opinions on the opinions of other people about the Bible as a foundational document for the country. So, y'know. :P

And yeah, I was like "Wait, it's been a month since there was a post here? Er." Happens to the best of us.

       
Heh, didn't figure you would. It may not itself be a founding document, but its principles were used as a guide. Sorta hard not to when they were in fact all Christians of some stripe or another.

With the way things have turned these days, if grave spinning founders was a viable energy source, we could abandon the use of everything else we currently use. If they were all alive today, there would have been a second revolution already.

       
"Yeah, Saudis, we're done with the whole oil thing. Turns out Thomas Jefferson is powering New York State all by himself. See ya."

Obviously I disagree with pretty much everything but your first sentence, of course. :P

       
but its principles were used as a guide.


I thought that it was the principles of enlightenment movement that were used as a guide.


@not at anyone in particular:

As for gay marriage, I support it. Who gives a shit really what people want to do with their lives. If only all the bible bashers out there would read their bibles and understand that God gave us FREE WILL to choose what is Right and Wrong for our own lives, which means, that, if some person chooses to be gay, it is there right to do so and that, we should not judge their actions, because this is Gods right, not ours.

As for the sanctity of marriage, and the rest of that crap argument, again who cares, if the institute of marriage was SO important as to need protecting and glorification, we would not have such high rates of divorce as we do, even among the so called "God Fearing" community. The reality of all this is that we live in a secular society, within a secular global community of individuals who do not hold the institute of marriage to mean anything much at all, much less have any interest in God or the bible.

At the end of the day, is 2 guys getting married going to change anything? The answer is NO. So who gives a rats, let them have it and lets worry about real issues.

       
Edited by The_Fury on May 24, 2012 10:51 pm
I give a rat's ass as long as they insist on shoving their immorality down my throat and everyone else's on the evening news every night. If they simply wanted to be left alone to live their lives as they saw fit, they wouldn't be out there stumping day in and day out getting in everyone's faces about this and that and DEMANDING the school system teach our children that engaging behavior that's NOT normal is in fact normal. Schools shouldn't be teaching our children about sex at all, much less about deviant sexual behavior that even scientists (honest ones anyway) will tell you is not normal.

When <1% of your population is able to make large scale sweeping demands like this and expects the other 99% to shut up and deal with it, you should expect that other 99% to react to that in an unfavorable fashion. This all goes well beyond simply being told to shut up and put up with this sort of behavior either. We're told in no uncertain terms these days that Christianity itself is a terrorist religion with terrorist ideals and that anyone who believes it is a complete dumbass not worthy to consume oxygen.

Which is all pretty God damned amusing once you peel away the bullshit and realize that Atheism itself is a dogmatic, aggressive religion unto itself.

Even more amusing to see people who refuse to study the facts of history continue to trot out that whole line about how the Founders were either atheists or deists, and not Christians at all. It just means the propaganda runs deep and strong and an entire generation of kids has been brought up to believe it without questioning it.

So.... yeah. "Let them do their thing" works perfectly well for me if they'll shut up and stop prancing around on my TV screen demanding I accept their lifestyle. They damn well don't accept mine, and I have as much right to be pissed about that as they seem to think they do.

       
Even more amusing to see people who refuse to study the facts of history continue to trot out that whole line about how the Founders were either atheists or deists, and not Christians at all. It just means the propaganda runs deep and strong and an entire generation of kids has been brought up to believe it without questioning it.


I never said anything of the sort, only that the principles of the enlightenment movement shaped the constitution more so than their Christian beliefs, if anything, they understood the reality of what the new testament teaches, because it is the right of the individual that is enshrined, not the right of some group to enforce their own moral disposition on people.


I give a rat's ass as long as they insist on shoving their immorality down my throat and everyone else's on the evening news every night.


But its OK for church groups to be doing the exact same thing? If it is ok for one, it is ok for the other. Personally, i wish they would all butt out and stop trying to use schools to promote their agenda.

And lets face it, Christian groups are a minority, just like gay groups are, if anything, they are more vocal and more devious in how they go about eroding the separation of church and state within your country.

       
Edited by The_Fury on May 25, 2012 12:02 am
Christian groups are 80% of the United States, where this particular issue is still on the table. I could care less if other countries have already settled this because I don't live there and don't intend to.

Christian groups aren't on the evening news regularly promoting their lifestyle to others. For one, the liberals in charge would never allow that. Fox News provides them air time, but even just that one network seems to piss off all the supposed supporters of free speech who want to shut them all up instead.

Separation of church and state is a myth btw. Look it up.

       
Edited by Samson on May 25, 2012 12:17 am
Now tell us what you really think.

This would seem to be the point at which if I say anything other than "I'm with Fury", it's all going to devolve very rapidly into the New Adventures of Profanity Rabbit.

       
What I really think is that everyone should shut the hell up about what their sexuality is. The world doesn't need to know about it one way or the other, so there's no legitimate reason for them to be screaming about it from the rooftops any more than there is for me to go do the same about being normal.

       
Christian groups are 80% of the United States,


And for most of them it has as much meaning as saying i am Greek or Spanish. Just because you may identify yourself as being Christian, does not mean you take it seriously. Take a look at church attendance figures, you will see that, those who practice their religion, rather than just identify as being that religion, are, in fact a small minority within your country. And it is only an even smaller subset of practising Christians who make a big noise about these social issues, and those are generally part of some wingnut evangelical group who wants to push its morality on the masses and that about some other minority who is trying to do the same.

Christian groups aren't on the evening news regularly promoting their lifestyle to others.


Of course they are, and the ones that are doing it are more of a threat to your personal liberty than some gay guy who wants to marry his boyfriend, because the Christian group will not be happy till they have turned your nation into a Christian version of the Islamic state under sharia law, where as, all the gay guy wants is equal rights that he should already possess.

       
What I really think is that everyone should shut the hell up about what their sexuality is. The world doesn't need to know about it one way or the other, so there's no legitimate reason for them to be screaming about it from the rooftops any more than there is for me to go do the same about being normal.


In as much as church groups need to shut the hell up and let people decide for themselves if they want to be gay, have an abortion, get divorced or any other such thing. God gave me the right to decide for myself what i want to do, and he did not give you the right to stop me, if i choose hell, its up to me, not you.

Luke 10 said:


“When you enter a town and are welcomed, eat what is set before you. Heal the sick who are there and tell them, ‘The kingdom of God is near you.’ But when you enter a town and are not welcomed, go into its streets and say, ‘Even the dust of your town that sticks to our feet we wipe off against you. Yet be sure of this: The kingdom of God is near.’ I tell you, it will be more bearable on that day for Sodom than for that town.


Jesus was pretty clear what we should do, Wipe the dust form our feet, and leave people to their own devices, because he gave them the choice to choose their own path. We are not to convert them, not to force our morality on them, but to leave them to their own eternity in hell.

       
Edited by The_Fury on May 25, 2012 1:58 am
Um. I do believe the word "everyone" includes the Christians you're so adamantly opposed to having a point of view here :P

Yes, they should all just shut up about it and then the issue would go away. Yes, there's moral depravity in this country. Surprise! Sin and evil exist! Those who wish to engage in sin, go right ahead. *I* don't want to hear about it day in and day out on the evening news. That segment of the population, miniscule as they are, has no right to force me to listen to their depravity. Just as I don't have the right to force someone to listen to my viewpoints on the subject either.

Channel surfing the local news, you'll find story after story about some gay couple doing this or that, or whining about some perceived injustice, or crying to get special rights. They try and promote it as equal rights, but that's not what they're really after. They ALREADY HAVE THAT. No. They want special rights not available to others. They want their sexual orientation to receive the same affirmative action treatment as exists for blacks. They demand the government bend over backward to help them promote their lifestyle choices to everyone and anyone. They cry about it being their 1st Amendment rights. OK.

They get all upset and bothered though when those of us who oppose such things rise up and challenge them on it using the same 1st Amendment rights WE have. Apparently Christians don't have the right to speak out and tell people being gay is wrong. Apparently telling our children that they should wait and have sex after marriage is appalling and somehow abusive even. Apparently we don't have the right to choose to educate our children in a manner we see fit, and we're crazed maniacs when we stand up against a corrupt school system that doesn't teach anything but debauchery anymore. Standing against having propaganda shoveled down their throats gets us branded as insane and generates demands that radio hosts be driven off the air and right wing commentators be fired from their jobs.

Can't have it both ways. If they're going to insist on screaming about it at every opportunity, they need to back the hell off when people rise up to challenge it. Don't like having it challenged? Go home and leave us alone about it then.

We are not to convert them, not to force our morality on them, but to leave them to their own eternity in hell.

Then they need to stop trying to do the same by trying for force their (lack of) morality on the rest of us.

       
Edited by Samson on May 25, 2012 2:04 am
Apparently we don't have the right to choose to educate our children in a manner we see fit,


But you do have the right to educate your children as you see fit, just as every other parent in the country has the right to educate their children as they see fit, and if you are a responsible parent who cares about their children's welfare, you will be doing just that, in the one place you have all the say, and that is in your own home.

Trouble is, parents are lazy and want the state to teach them things which they should be teaching them in the home, which is why we have all these minority Christian factions wanting this and that be forced down peoples necks in public schools. The school system should be about teaching kids stuff that will help them get a job, math, english, science and art will help them here, not intelligent design, prayer or christian morality. This is stuff parents need to teach their kids.

       
Edited by The_Fury on May 25, 2012 2:59 am
Gay pride, putting condoms on bananas, and whatever other immoral activities you can think of don't help them get jobs in math, English, science, or art either. Sexuality education has no place in the school system. You can't even justify that on non-religious grounds.

I'd argue that teaching Intelligent Design would though because you're not demanding they shut off their critical thinking skills and be forced to learn an obviously bullshit "theory" about the origins of life that doesn't even add up when scrutinized by actual math and science. All because some book told them it was true, and nobody develops the necessary skills to question that.

       
Then they need to stop trying to do the same by trying for force their (lack of) morality on the rest of us.


I do not think they do, and even if they are, why should be care about it at all. The important thing here is what we do, not what they do, and what we should be doing is giving them the right to choose for themselves, not forcing our morality on them. And even if they are trying to force their ways on us, wipe the dust form your feet, because even the dust is not worth your time and energy, which could be used much more constructively.

       
Oh, they do, you obviously don't watch much American news media. It's everywhere. Gay this, gay that, lesbian this, lesbian that, LGBT and whatever else. It never stops being hammered. You can't ignore it without simply tuning out entirely, and that's dangerous.

As Edmund Burke said: All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.

       
That loud noise you just heard followed by the giant red geyser was me swearing so hard my head exploded.

Evil to triumph, indeed. :headbang:

       
All that is necessary for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing.


But do nothing is what God instructed us to do. The only time Jesus concerned himself with anything other than asking people to follow him was to give the Pharisees (The Church) a good beating for leading people astray and making their lives miserable with laws that they did not even uphold for themselves.

Today's church is exactly the same, it parades itself and boasts of its holiness, while ignoring the sin within its own doors. Ministers having affairs, or molesting children, televangelists with their lust of money, divorce rates as high as the non Christian population, churches who rate their success by "bums on seats" as some ministers put it and business models that put profit ahead of people. But hey we look good because we hate gays and are pro lifers.

Being Christian for most people is nothing more than than a fashion statement, it is just about belonging to a club of like minded people, it has no real meaning to them other than hanging out with friends on sunday, they go, the listen and when they leave that is the end of it for them for the week. There is no reality and no deeper meaning for them, which is why they end up worrying about things that really should not concern them.

@Dwip

LOL

       
Weren't we going to try and avoid getting into a debate about this? :rolleyes:

As I think I've said before (on Dwip's site), its such a non issue for me its an complete non-issue and as a result I don't really care, although I wouldn't impede anyone pushing for gay marriage. But I would not support the idea of homosexual marriage as being taught as normal in schools until the later years (at my school we were all about 15-16 by the time we started sex-ed, which seems late enough).

       
Weren't we going to try and avoid getting into a debate about this?

Fury didn't get the memo :P

       
At the risk of derailing the theological argument, here, into another probably just as contentious...

prettyfly said:


(at my school we were all about 15-16 by the time we started sex-ed, which seems late enough).


I'd try to reattach my head so it could pop off again, but I think the blood geyser launched it into space. It may be trying to dock with the ISS right now.

Which, teenagers being what they are, 16 seems a like one of those things where the barn door isn't so much wide open as much as the entire barn collapsed into the weeds. We had it at 12-13 in my neck of the woods, and perhaps none too soon for some of my classmates, plus again at 15-16. Though to be sure I figure my mother had a better way, wherein she plopped me down, threw on Jerry Springer, and asked if I wanted to end up like all the 14 year old mothers and suchlike. Which, come to find out, I didn't, so much.

Anyway.

       
Fury didn't get the memo :P


Hey, you know me, if there is one thing that is surely going to get me fired up, it is what i see as religious stupidity. Turns me into a fat kid with cake, absolutely no self control. :P

       
Samson said:

prettyfly said:

Weren't we going to try and avoid getting into a debate about this?

Fury didn't get the memo

How could we fail to notice? ;)

Dwip said:

Which, teenagers being what they are, 16 seems a like one of those things where the barn door isn't so much wide open as much as the entire barn collapsed into the weeds. We had it at 12-13 in my neck of the woods, and perhaps none too soon for some of my classmates, plus again at 15-16. Though to be sure I figure my mother had a better way, wherein she plopped me down, threw on Jerry Springer, and asked if I wanted to end up like all the 14 year old mothers and suchlike. Which, come to find out, I didn't, so much.

Sounds similar to my own experiences, somewhat.. We had formal sex education class in 5th grade, then again in 10th grade. Of course, in 5th grade most of it might as well have been potty humor to us and by 10th grade, well, we'd already figured enough out on our own to be the foundation for the Jerry Springer show. My own mother's approach had been a bit more hands off, no TV shows (not that we had such shows back in the late 70s - early 80s), I came home from school one day to find a copy of "Everything You Always Wanted to Know About Sex (But Were Afraid to Ask)" lying on my bed with a note on top of it telling me to go see my father, after reading it, if I had any questions. :lol:

       
Edited by Conner on May 27, 2012 5:20 pm
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