Traitors in our Midst

A dangerous turn of events has taken place. Enemies of the US have burned our flag, and burned effigies of our soldiers. No, I'm not talking about the routine asshattery that takes place every day in Gaza. That's not even newsworthy anymore. I'm talking about right here at home. In our own backyard. In the city of Portland, Oregon.

Last week an anarchist protest march took place in the city and during this march several protesters burned flags, effigies of US soldiers, and shouted such gems as "Fuck the troops". The news was quiet about it for the most part. Except Fox News, who broke the story nationally. But even then, there was little fanfare over what amounts to an Al Quaeda rally. The "protesters" wore masks and hid behind the first amendment. The sort of thing terrorists do in the middle east when they're out on their daily anti-America chants. They don't want you to know who they are. Because they might be your neighbors. They certainly aren't your friends, at least not anymore.

Four years ago, these people would have been silenced. Possibly even arrested. During World War 2, they would have been jailed for sedition. Before that's it's likely they would have been shot on sight for treason. It's almost certain they would have started riots. Today? The left wing press buries the story on the back pages of their newspapers and only local coverage manages to give a hint to what's going on. But it took the internet to reveal the real truth. These people cursed our troops, defecated and urinated on our flag, and on effigies of our troops.

Some blogs have gone so far as to say "OK, question their patriotism". These people have none. They're not patriots. They're enemies of the state. They should be rounded up and either jailed for sedition or expelled from the country. I'm sure Canada would love to have them. Then again, I suspect even Canada has little tolerance for open treason in the streets. There are traitors in our midst, and we must stand against them.
"It is pointless to resist, my son." -- Darth Vader
"Resistance is futile." -- The Borg
"Mother's coming for me in the dragon ships. I don't like these itchy clothes, but I have to wear them or it frightens the fish." -- Thurindil

Well. I guess that's that then.

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Posted on Mar 26, 2007 3:12 pm by Samson in: | 16 comment(s) [Closed]
As I tend to favor a rather broad interpretation of the first amendment, I disagree. Certainly, such actions are in terrible taste. But there's a world of difference between saying "Fuck the troops" and an al-Qaeda rally. The first is an expression of personal opinion; the second is incitement to commit crimes. If anarchist protesters move from burning flags to throwing Molotov cocktails - or even planning to do so - by all means arrest them. But until then, I think they're within their rights as American citizens. You don't forfeit your American citizenship just for being gratuitously nasty in public.

Also, because this caught my eye: "But it took the internet to reveal the real truth."
True, this time it exposed something the "left-wing press" didn't cover. But just as often it exposes things the "right-wing" press won't cover either. I've seen plenty of instances of both.

Facist scum sucking asshole.

Asshattery is a cool word. Just so we're all clear on that.

I was actually going to write substantively on the matter, but come on. Anarchists in Portland? That's not news, it's a decades-long joke. Equating them to AQ actually makes them sound important or something, like people you should take seriously. It's like encouraging them.

My many previously stated opinions on thought policing will be left as a memory exercise for the reader.

I take a fairly broad view to the first amendment myself, but I do think there are reasonable limits. An anti-war protest, if that's in fact all it is, is fine by me. I won't participate, but I'm not going to stop a group of protesters from saying their piece if they feel they need to. That's the entire point of why we fight to protect our freedoms.

When it crosses the line into the despicable treachery that took place in Portland, that's where I draw the line. These people aren't anti-war protesters. They're anti-America protesters. A masked gang of roving thugs who are burning things in the streets. They pervert everything it is to be American. These people are evil. Their entire purpose is to show support for our enemies in a time of war by carrying out the kind of demonstrations you see in Iran, Syria, Lebanon, and other Arab states. This crosses the line from a peaceful protest to a seditious act. Torching a flag, burning a US soldier in effigy, shitting on the flag, pissing on the flag, and then chanting death slogans to our troops isn't being "gratuitously nasty in public". In my book you forfeit your right to be here when you side with our enemies. The border is that way ^

For those of us outside Portland who don't know what kind of craziness you guys put up with up there, this raises serious alarm bells and draws in national attention. At least if the media wasn't already seriously biased in their favor. The left wing press low balled it as an anti-war protest. What coverage in the papers I was able to dig up this far after the fact described it as such and left out the gory details. Only when I heard about it on Fox News this morning did it finally come out that it was much more sinister than that. So the right wing press, such as it is, cast the light on it. But the internet had beaten them both to it last week when it happened.

To say that the "right wing press" doesn't cover things is seriously misleading since there's barely a right wing press to speak of in the US. 98% of your newspapers, and all but one TV network is controlled by what are clearly left wing hardcore liberal interests. Their biases are displayed openly in their deep hatred for Bush and everything he does, no matter how right or good it may be. At least with Fox, you get both sides of the man. Nobody else will do that. You won't get balanced news from the LA or NY Times or any of their subordinate papers below them. They've even taken to making up news lately, just to have something to print. Stories that are negative against the left get buried deep within the pages. Stories negative against the right sit above the fold on page 1 for all to see. It's so damn obvious as to be sickening. But this is a consequence of having a free press. They're free to take sides and lie if they feel like it.

Now, I'm going to go out on a limb here and hope whoever is reading this ( besides our oh so articulate pal Justin there ) that suggesting you pay a visit to won't immediately be met with being told I'm a right wing wacko :)

Oh, and Justin, it's fascist btw. If you're going to come here and be a jerk, for God's sake, do it right.

Right wing wacko.

I love you too Whir :)

True, the right end of the spectrum here is nowhere near as far right as it is in many other countries. I give you that.

However, while I don't peruse places like Bill O'Reilly's website and the National Review Online daily, I do end up reading a lot of what they say linked to by, say, Andrew Sullivan, or my mom, who emails me articles on a frequent basis. So I've read a lot of arguments in favor of Bush's actions as well as against them. Granted, part of this is knowing where to look, but rest assured the New York Times is not my only source of news. It IS my homepage, but hey, there you don't have an above the fold/buried inside problem to deal with, right? ;)

I still think the protest doesn't deserve to be considered sedition. Sedition requires incitement to insurrection or rebellion, no? Does burning the flag and chanting obscenities about the troops meet that criterion?

Burning the flag and chanting obscenities in and of itself does not, no.

But as I said, that's not all they did despite the fact that the biased media coverage made it sound that way. I'm of the opinion that when you direct your chants against the nation, and burn effigies of those who protect it, you are clearly demonstrating you support the causes of our enemies instead of our own. These actions are dangerous, and when looked at in the larger context of actions like that of the city council to openly order the federal administration not to bomb Iran, it becomes much more than some spoiled college kids out to stir up trouble.

The lack of condemnation for it, and the media's blunted coverage of it emboldens them to the point where the next march may not stop with burning and shitting on flags and effigies. Someone might throw that Molotov cocktail through the window of a police station or army recruiting office. And once you've gone there, it's open rebellion. You move from sedition to treason. And it's shockingly easy for it to escalate to that level. We've seen it happen before, and the scary part is it was recent enough that people should remember how close we came to tearing ourselves apart over it.

Left wing, Right wing.. whatever.. either way, someone please explain to me how burning the American Flag or effigies of soldiers, or burning anything for that matter, is an act protected under freedom of speech?? Who was speaking within that fire?

I've already called Justin a moron twice on here for his posts, must I do it a third time?

Anyway, back to the issue at hand, I don't care which side of the political fence you're on, or even how far to that side you lean, burning the American flag is a statement in and of itself that should be equated with openly declaring yourself no longer a citizen of this country, at least when done by citizens.

Making all those remarks about soldiers, including the non-verbal ones, is far beyond uncalled for. Our troops did not request to be sent to Iraq, they didn't declare war, in fact, the vast majority of our troops have nothing to do with any of thise other than doing their duty to their country to protect the rights of ignorant jerks like, well, our new friend Justin.

If you really feel this war is so terribly wrong, how about blaming the President or Congress since both had a hand in it. For that matter, how about a little honesty, let's blame our President's father since he's really the one who choose this war and choose not to end it after he started it.

If you're of the opposing opinion, then how about blaming Saddam and his cronies.

Either way, blaming the troops is wrong in every sense. ..and before anyone brings it up, let me just point out that I'm not talking about the individual soldiers who have been found guilty of commiting acts that were absolutely wrong here, I'm talking about our troops in general.

I'm sorry, burning the flag is enough. We all know full well that the flag is a representation of our nation. If you hate it that much, just denounce your citizenship officially instead and do us all a favor.

Don't get me wrong, I think burning the flag is a terrible thing to do, but I'm not willing to call the act, by itself, enough to rise to sedition. Sure, it definitely sends the signal that you're very pissed off at your country, but alone doesn't usually go much beyond the act itself.

When you combine it with burning effigies of your country's troops, chanting in the streets calling for their deaths, shitting on the flag, pissing on the flag, and wearing black masks to make yourselves look like a roving band of terrorists, there's a problem. THAT I believe is a seditious act. At that point you are calling for violence against your own nation. Gatherings like this are one step away from open rebellion.

I don't know, Samson. Politics entirely aside, just as a matter of patriotism, I tend to feel that hanging the flag upside down (as one of my neighbors routinely does) or defacing the flag are, in fact, defined in our federal statutes as criminal acts. Burning the flag is considered acceptable in order to dispose of it, but not as a form of protest. I think that if you're pissed at your country there are plenty of lawful and peaceful means to express that sentiment, but when you take the extreme of publicly burning the flag and defacing it at the same time, particularly when combined with acts such as described above, you are quite clearly effectively renouncing your citizenship and should be treated as the traitor that you've become, or at least expeditiously exported to somewhere you'll be happier, like that penal colony that the UK established so many years back that calls itself Australia.. or, perhaps since they've learned to function as part of the world now, it's a good time to establish a new penal colony, say on Jupiter...

Oh yay a heated argument fun times :)

Well as some of you know I'm fairly far to the right myself.

However lets not forget that the founding fathers of this country were all men who REVOLTED against thier government. They specifically wrote the constitution to protect people who were against thier own government. These guys are a bunch of Asshats (one of my favorite words) but lets not forget that our first amendment is primarily there for Seditious, unpopular, anti-government speech. Thats it's purpose and it's helped create the greatest nation in the world.

It's interesting to note that shortly after this country was founded congress did pass a law against sedition. Before it's repeal I think Thomas Jefferson said it best "the sedition law was contrary to the Constitution and therefore void. On this ground I considered it as a nullity wherever I met it in the course of my duties; and on this ground I directed nolle prosequis in all the prosecutions which had been instituted under it"

Do we really want to go down this road again? Honestly I find it Un-American and therefor Un-Patriotic not to support the right to protest. I'll defend the rights of anyone (even asshats) to protest all they want so long as they don't put anyone in danger of violate the law. Clear and present danger is the key and these guys are really only a danger to the gene pool.....

We grow em strange here in Oregon.

Well, I can see your point, and in general it may be a valid one. But acts like the above are as unpatriotic as you can get and insult everyone currently serving or who's ever served in the military.

On the other hand, our founding fathers, asshats that they may have been, may well have had the right idea. Our countries current taxes and various rules/regulations/laws are far worse than the conditions they revolted under, yet our citizens do nothing. Perhaps we're due for another chapter of the Sons of Liberty to take action and to force the citizens into a stand as well.

I really don't see how you could view the founding fathers as asshats. In order to hold that view, you have to hold the view that the British were in the right and that the revolution never should have taken place. The interesting thing about history is, at the time, you'd have had 33% of the population in agreement with you. Another 33% was indifferent and was planning to take no action either way. So the revolution against England was actually perpetrated by the 33% of the population that decided enough was enough.

If such a scenario were to build and take place today, it would be seen as an outright rebellion against the government. A lot of people would be killed, and it would become one of the bloodiest chapters in world history. And it would almost certainly spill over into neighboring countries and lead to a great deal of destabilization in the rest of the world. The scary part is, this protest in Oregon indicates that we're dangerously close to that point now with population divisions approaching those same lines where 33% of the people are pissed as hell, 33% could care less, and 33% are diehard loyalists.

The only problem is, the 33% who are pissed as hell are socialist asshats who want the government to do everything for them, and who at the same time refuse to believe this nation needs to fight to protect itself. It's a scenario that just won't work and will eventually lead to the fall of this country.

Lol I was saying the anarchists are asshats wow did I word that one badly in my exhausted from work state or something? Nope just read it again still looks like I meant the anarchists to me....

I think our founding fathers were some of the greatest political minds in history.

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